Lore talk:Knightsgrave: Legend or Legacy

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Statue inconsistency[edit]

Following on from my post about the Date inconsistency for the establishment of the Order of the Hour (Lore_talk:Order_of_the_Hour_(book)#Date_inconsistency). This book also has a minor inconsistency with the Order:

With the death of Ennon and his original group of companions, great statues were raised in memory of the founders.

When you visit Knightsgrave there are notable statues on the stairs and main chamber. Black Dragon mentions these in her journal:

I admired the statues on the stairs that descended into these ruins. The founders of the Order of the Hour were great and faithful warriors.

The problem is the people on these statues were not the founders. Cavor Merula and co. only re-established the Order in the 2nd Era. It dates back to the 1st Era and Ennon Decan was the founder. What makes it worse is Cavor Merula didn't hang around and make Knightsgrave their HQ (which might have explained the presence of the 4 statues). He blessed the place and bailed. You can argue that the original statues of Ennon are missing/lost/destroyed deeper in the tomb, and that Black Dragon was mistaken - but it still doesn't explain where the other 4 statues come from. I'm not even sure how I'm going to explain this one on the lore page. --Jimeee (talk) 12:40, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

It could be that the Black Dragon actually means the "re-founders" of the Order, or the founders of the Order in its modern form. The statues honoring Cavor and his companions might have been built by the later generations of the Second Era Order to honor their memory (since the place was already dedicated to the dead members), whereas the original statues might have been lost, replaced by the new ones, or even reworked into the new ones. These are just loose thoughts, but my point is that it is still possible to explain it logically. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 18:34, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
Because any explanation is tenuous guesswork at best, I'd rather note it as an inconsistency if it comes up. I think Zenimax originally planned for Cavor Merula and co. to be the 1st era founders, which would have solved the entire problem, but then they changed his story and made him the re-founder for whatever reason, but kept Knightsgrave the same. --Jimeee (talk) 09:30, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
But your inconsistency claim is based on speculation and presumption that Zenimax planned something and then messed it up.
We don't know, firstly, whether the Black Dragon speaks about the original founders. Secondly, we don't know any specifics about the Ennon & co's statues. (There a whole lot of statues outside and inside Knightsgrave, and most of them have no readable plaques. Even if the entrance stairs could definitely be an appropriate place for these, we don't know where they were placed and whether they still exist) Tib (talk) 13:14, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
My claim is based largely on the contents of this book and what we see in-game. It just doesn't add up, so its not speculation to note that. Even if we ignore Black Dragon's journal for a second:
  • 1) This book heavily implies that Cavor Merula did not use Knightsgrave as a HQ. He didn't want to disturb the dead. He blessed the area, raised guardians and left to build the Enclave.
  • 2) Before he even got there, the Chantry had turned it into crypt long ago. It was not used for about 500 years - between about 1E 2804 ("early life of the Empire") to 2E 431.
  • 3) The 4 puzzle statues of him and his gang exist in game. However, if Cavor Merula didn't wish to disturb the dead and moved the Order to the Enclave of the Hourglass, then where on earth did the statues of Cavor and associated brazier locks suddenly appear from? This book implies that it was the Order of the 1st Era (just after Ennon) who were responsible for building the complex, but the statues in the game contradicts that.
True, it can be explained away with x, y and z (in the same way other contradictions have been in the past), but its still disappointing to have to do that.--Jimeee (talk) 14:11, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

() I am not sure if I have got it all, but the statues would usually be erected some time after the person they portrait are dead, so I do not see any discrepancy between your point 1 and your next two points? —MortenOSlash (talk) 06:32, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

It basically means that after Cavor and company (the second founders) died, someone who came after him (his followers etc) presumably went into Knightsgrave (the place he didn't want his people to go), then placed/carved 4 statues, and then created a giant lock puzzle with 4 more statues. All this while the place was crawling with guardian spirits that Cavor himself placed there. That (or some sort of variation of it) is what I don't find to be consistent. But honestly, its such a minor lore detail that i'm not sure its worth discussing to the ends of the earth. --Jimeee (talk) 09:39, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
True, but I understand the frustration, Jimeee :P Sometimes the details are important, but they are lost in this vagueness. Tib (talk) 11:12, 22 December 2016 (UTC)