Lore talk:Red Mountain

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History of Red Mountain.[edit]

In the year of 3E 427, with the Tamriel Imperial authority was suppressed by the questions of order, the already fragile Imperial Empire administration of the province of Morrowind was threatened by the return of an old, evil curse right below the giant volcano Red Mountain, it is also referred to as "Dagoth-Ur." An Imperial courier marked by the sighns (stars), born upon a certain date to unknown parents, came to Morrowind a stranger or an outlander, and lived to become one of that nation's most permanent legends. — Unsigned comment by DylanFerizal (talkcontribs) at 20:09 on 8 November 2008 (GMT)

Post Fourth Era (Should I add to history?)[edit]

The last known explosion of Red Mountain was in the early Fourth Era, shortly after the end of the Oblivion Crisis. It was set off when the Ministry of Truth, in Vivec City, collapsed to the ground and razed the city and much of Vvardnfell. What wasn't destroyed by the ancient meteor was destroyed by the explosion at Red Mountain. The force of the meteor finishing it's age-old fall caused the volcano to erupt, for the first time since it created Vvardenfall. It's explosion gave the whole island (or what was left of it) an ashland-like appearence. — Unsigned comment by Andy12750 (talkcontribs) on 30 November 2009

What is the source? Is it the latest Elder Scrolls novel The Infernal City? If that is the case, you're free to edit the article with the new information (and provide the reference, or at least mention you've used the novel as source). --Timenn-<talk> 14:23, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Signpost in Skyrim near Windhelm[edit]

There is a book on a pedistal on the road going East from Windhelm toward Morrowind, dedicating a destroyed tower to the refugees whom fled Morrowind during the Red Year in the Fourth era. Also there is no evidence that mainland Morrowind was destroyed, only the island of Vvardenfell seems to be confirmed to be gone. — Unsigned comment by 72.39.85.254 (talk) at 00:25 on 24 November 2011 (GMT)

There are other things to flee, there was a war, the collapse of the temple, possible redoran coup and the destruction of hlaalu and all sorts of badness that resulted from the volcano to send refugees flying. — Unsigned comment by 125.237.124.108 (talk) at 03:15 on 28 February 2013 (GMT)
There was definitely damage from Red Mountain that extended beyond Vvardenfell. The damage extended as far south as Tear (about as far from Vvardenfell as you can get in Morrowind) and even some of the roads into Black Marsh were washed out by earthquakes and coastal flooding. And it went at least as far west as Fort Frostmoth on Solstheim, which was mostly destroyed in the blast. Though Mournhold was mostly unscathed (despite being much closer than Tear), the area of effect was quite large and many people were presumably left homeless. (Also, Vvardenfell isn't "gone" per se. It's just uninhabitable. You can even see Red Mountain from Solstheim in Dragonborn.) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 03:40, 28 February 2013 (GMT)

When Arngeir mentions Red Mountain what event is he referring to?[edit]

Arngeir (in High Hrothgar), says: "He [Jurgen Windcaller] was a great war leader of the ancient Nords, a master of the Voice, or Tongue. After the disaster at Red Mountain, where the Nord army was annihilated, he spent many years pondering the meaning of that terrible defeat. He finally came to realize that the gods had punished the Nords for their arrogant and blasphemous misuse of the Voice. ...Jurgen Windcaller's mastery of the Voice eventually overcame all opposition, and the Way of the Voice was born." Literat 00:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

There are 2 eruptions of Red Mountain, one in the 1st era, and one after the Oblivion crisis. Since Arngeir says "ancient Nords" it would seem more likely that he means the first eruption (or some other ancient event). During this event there was a big war: dwarves vs dark elves (aka dwemer vs dunmer). There is a book in Skyrim called 'The War of the First Council' which does say that Nords fought on the side of the dwemer, only to lose. (incidentally, this is when the Dwemer disappeared.) The War of the First Council Literat 00:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) It probably refer to the Battle of Red Mountain. The book Nerevar Moon-and-Star refers to "a great host of outlanders from the West" fighting with the Dwemer against the Chimer and losing, and that could mean Nords. The Five Songs of King Wulfharth is more explicit. rpeh •TCE 00:47, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
thanks yeah the book The War of the First Council backs that up:
"The War of the First Council was a First Age religious conflict between the secular Dunmer Houses Dwemer and Dagoth and the orthodox Dunmer Houses Indoril, Redoran, Dres, Hlaalu, and Telvanni. The First Council was the first pan-Dunmer governing body, which collapsed over disputes about sorceries and enchantments practiced by the Dwemer and declared profane by the other Houses. The Secular Houses, less numerous, but politically and magically more advanced, and aided by Nord and Orc clans drawn by promise of land and booty, initially campaigned with great success in the north of Morrowind"Literat 00:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
However, what is making me a bit unconfident in this conclusion is that Five Songs of King Wulfharth talks of a disaster at Red Mountain but it says the Dwemer fought the Nords, whereas in the Battle of Red Mountain they are allies, and I notice on the time line of the 1st era http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:First_Era#1E_401 that the Nords where driven out of Morrowind 300 years earlier by the dwemer and dunmer. — Unsigned comment by Literat (talkcontribs) at 01:15 on December 21, 2011

THE Red Mountain[edit]

The new material out of Dragonborn (and possibly Skyrim?) consistently refers to "the Red Mountain", not simply "Red Mountain". Should we follow their lead in the lore? Not that it's a priority or anything, but while we're editing other stuff ... Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 21:47, 6 December 2012 (GMT)

It's not the first time that it's been called that, but excluding the "the" seems to be more common. —Legoless (talk) 22:09, 6 December 2012 (GMT)

Visibility of the Red Mountain[edit]

The article mentions that Red Mountain can be clearly seen in Skyrim and Dragonborn. However, it can also be seen in ESO - it's clearly visible from northern Stonefalls in clear weather, especially from the city of Davon's Watch. Worth mentioning? -Vordur Steel-Hammer2 (talk) 12:21, 10 September 2014 (GMT)

☑Yes Done. Jeancey (talk) 19:16, 10 September 2014 (GMT)

Draconic name?[edit]

So the word wall says "Of Clan Red-Mountain" - so what? It doesn't mean that it refers to the volcano on Vvardenfell. Kinetically-Interlinked Nirnian Multi-User NthGen Exoform (talk) 22:53, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Well there aren't any other places called Red Mountain, so I think it's a reasonable assumption. --Enodoc (talk) 23:56, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Clan names aren't places though - are the Stormcloak clan named after Mount Storm Cloak? — Unsigned comment by Kinetically-Interlinked Nirnian Multi-User NthGen Exoform (talkcontribs) at 09:07 on 22 May 2016
Though that last argument is lacking, I have to agree with KINMUNE. While "SahQO-STRUNMah" literally translates to "Red-Mountain", it is more likely to just refer to "a mountain that is red" rather than "that big volcano in the heart of the land of the enemy elves". The Throat of the World is called "Monahven" by the dragons, what literally means "Mother Wind" (source). It is likely that if the dragons had a name for the Red Mountain, it would not literally translate to that. -- SarthesArai Talk 10:14, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
It's clearly referring to the Red Mountain, and to assume the dragons had a non-literal translation for the place is pure speculation. The clan name argument also doesn't hold, especially considering the ancient Nords were at Red Mountain before. Aside from playing Devil's advocate I can't see any reason to not include this clear-cut translation. —Legoless (talk) 13:24, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
I don't see any evidence that it points to that red mountain, and why is it speculation to assume that they had a different name for it? Things often don't translate literally in different languages, and we already have the example of the Troat of the World. -- SarthesArai Talk 13:37, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
Because there's simply no basis for that belief. Monahven is a straw man argument. I think it's safe to assume the term "red mountain" points to a single thing in a TES context. —Legoless (talk) 15:45, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
Where do the word wall translations come from? Assuming they are accurate, "BROD SahQO-STRUNMah" means "Clan Red-Mountain". But do we know that "SahQO-STRUNMah" directly translates to "red mountain", or is it the Draconic name of the volcano Red Mountain? There's no reason it couldn't be both. (As Sarthes said, names don't have to translate literally; there's a town in Wales which is called Aberteifi, and if you translate that to English, it's name would be Teifimouth, but the English name of the town is Cardigan.) I always assumed "Clan Red-Mountain" referred to either the Dwemer who lived on Vvardenfell (as opposed to the Rourken Clan, who were the Dwemer that left Vvardenfell), or a Nord clan who controlled Vvardenfell during the First Empire of the Nords. It is not unreasonable to assume that this clan decided to name themselves after their home, rather than an important person, given the significance of Red Mountain. And that brings us back to where I started; there is only one Red Mountain. --Enodoc (talk) 16:40, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
The word wall translations come from this and this. It can be assumed that these are accurate. However, "Clan Red-Mountain" would not refer to the Dwemer who came from Red Mountain, as their name for Red Mountain just so happens to be "Vvardenfell" which means "City of the Strong Shield" - source. Kinetically-Interlinked Nirnian Multi-User NthGen Exoform (talk) 00:56, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
I think Enodoc was implying that "Clan Red-Mountain" would be the Nords' name for them, similar to how the Chimer called them House Dwemer. That would be speculatory too of course, but I don't think we need concern ourselves with the clan too much. —Legoless (talk) 02:50, 23 May 2016 (UTC)