Morrowind talk:Tel Uvirith

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Location?[edit]

OK, isn't this the same as Uvirith's Grave? Or am I confused?--Hoggwild5 17:30, 2 October 2006 (EDT)

Yes. Well, technically Uvirith's Grave is the location of Tel Uvirith, which is the name of the settlement. --FMan 17:54, 2 October 2006 (EDT)

New Image[edit]

I've uploaded Image:MW-Places-TelUvirith.jpg in case we'd like to use it instead.– KJR1012 Talk Email Contribs 11:53, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Dungeons[edit]

Tel Vos and Tel Uvirith aren't the only with dungeons, I remember exploreing Tel Branora's Dungeon. So im gonna search each tower to see if I can find any more--LordSil 22:02, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Best Stronghold?[edit]

"In many ways it is the best "home" in the game, including storage space, larger hallways and more rooms."

Are we talking about the same claustrophobic maze where the dwemer animunculi constantly blocks your way? =)

Least amount of containers. Least amount of NPCs. Furthest away from civilization. It's not bigger than the other strongholds. The statement that this is somehow the best one seems like pure opinion to me. Weroj 15:02, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree, the phrase before that already explains the main difference between this Stronghold and the two others. I've removed the line. --Timenn-<talk> 10:18, 29 January 2010

it dose have more storage thanks to the dead body in the dungion that can hold unlimited weight. Its taller than the rest and onley bigger becouse tower or manor the bilding you own is 3 seprate rooms not just one. But its so far away kidnapping people or creatures is harder. And I havent tested to see if objects dissapear from the body but they shouldent seing that the body is in your dungon. But other than the dead body this place sucks. -- froggy 98.198.148.59 21:27, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Adding a note, as I've re-written the article to remove the 'best house' bias being complained about here. As already noted, is incorrect that Tel Uvirith is the largest stronghold either by overall size or storage. Even the permanent corpse wasn't mentioned in the article despite the fact it makes the tower much more usable. Meanwhile, much of the article was dedicated to irrelevant praise of Telvanni architecture or politics, such as the significance of the tower being constructed in the Ashlands. That kind of information is better suited to a lore page or the relevant quest pages, and, in any case, should not be written with such editorialised language.--Thalass (talk) 18:24, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Maybe it was written by a Telvanni..? ;) 83.169.216.232 20:12, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Tel Uvirith[edit]

Can you find Tel Uvirith if you aren't a House Telvanni member? — Unsigned comment by 174.125.240.39 (talk) on 25 October 2010

Yes. rpeh •TCE 08:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I went to Uvirith's Grave, but I couldn't find Tel Uvirith. — Unsigned comment by 174.124.142.40 (talk) on 27 October 2010

Tel Uvirith only exists if you are a high-ranking member of one of the Great Houses --Brf 18:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Simply put they only show up when you have a strong hold yourself or so I have noticed -- froggy 98.198.148.59 21:10, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Occupants[edit]

Is it worth it to murder the surrounding npc's to use their huts as storage? — Unsigned comment by 147.226.202.56 (talk) on 26 jan 2011

It is up to you whether something is "worth it". Why would you need to murder an NPC before storing things in their hut? --Brf 12:16, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Thats simple to avoid the theft charges for reclaiming you personal effects. And in my opion no its not. the only true use for the house is to store prisioners and this stronghold has a dungen. I havent tried useing the houses for storage here. But I did do so for the stronghold on odi plato for hallau on my theif character and all my belongins in the houses (not the manor just the tower an houses) dissapeared.

so in theory it may do the same at this stronghold. Did not test dont want to lose my stuff.

Now my question why is my stuff going missing and is there a way to get them back with out searching for new stuff? 98.198.148.59 21:03, 27 September 2011 (UTC) froggy

View on map link[edit]

The view on map link doesn't work. There's no Tel Uvirith location on the map. --98.145.166.11 17:02, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

It's fixed. Thanks for pointing it out. Wolok gro-Barok 18:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Purpose of Notes Section[edit]

I've just reverted an edit that added details to the notes section about travel routes to/from Tel Uvirith that the user felt were advantageous. The reasons for doing this are as follows:

* The "notes" section of UESP pages are generally reserved for non-obvious factual information that a player should be made aware of, not subjective walkthroughs. For example, it is relevant to note that Tel Uvirith does not appear in the world until a certain quest stage, as this is important factual information for players that come looking for this page wondering why they can't locate the tower on their game save.
* Most of the added information is already in the sidebar table (which lists the region, Almsivi/Divine intervention destinations, and a link to the location of the tower on the interactive map). There is also a redirect notice to the Morrowind:Houses page at the top, which has further details.
* The remaining information is subjective and/or not relevant to the page (e.g. that Tel Uvirith is a convenient home for vampire players). Please see the above comments on this talk page, which discuss the influence of bias and how previous page revisions addressed this.

Lastly, I'd add that the Morrowind:Houses page already contains information about the locations of each of the strongholds. The descriptions are brief and strictly factual to adhere to the editing standards just mentioned. Moreover, that page was designed so that players can compare and choose a home by reading that article without needing to consult the sub-pages. This was handled carefully as that page is not a walkthrough any more than this one is. None of the information added in the recent edits to this page warrants migration to the Houses page instead. -- Thalass (talk) 01:24, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi Thalass,
I agree, that the notes were not the right place for those info but I still think they are relevant to other users when choosing a great house and stronghold. The info in the box are limited, if you look at both maps of intervention this location is placed between multiple regions, making travel with intervention very convenient. I don't see the same advantage with the other two strongholds and it took me some time to appreciate this feature.
As a vampire you can teleport to the north adding more convenience. I thought it could save some travel time to other people.
Are those information really not relevant or too personal for this page? Is there a more suitable page?
Thanks CyD (talk) 19:44, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
Just adding my two cents:
  • Players choose a great house for various reasons and stronghold location is only one of them. Endorsing Tel Uvirith (and by extension, House Telvanni) for being in a "convenient" location is too subjective, as well as vague, for this wiki.
  • Not all players will join House Telvanni. Of those that do, not all will opt to be a vampire. Of those that do, not all will select the Aundae Clan. Thus, the tip for Aundae vampires in House Telvanni is too specialized to warrant inclusion. It has less to do with Tel Uvirith and more to do with playing in a very personal / specific play style.
  • When replying in a talk page, don't forget to indent your response by prefixing each line with a colon (:), which improves readability for other contributors. Salamangkero (talk) 15:02, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
Hi Salamangkero,
Thank you for your feedback.
I don't intend to endorse House Telvanni, I red that Tel Uvrith is considered a remote location and I would like to give another point of view.
yes the vampire hint is very specific, let's forget it shall we?
I hope I got the format right
is there a suitable page regarding Tel Uvrith where to link the maps with the intervention zones? I think they would be helpful.
CyD (talk) 21:11, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
Sorry for the formatting, still trying.
I edited the Morrowind:Houses page adding those two links.
I didn't add any walkthrough nor personal interpretation.
let me know if there is any issue.
CyD (talk) 08:30, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your consideration, CyD, and I applaud your enthusiasm, but in this case there is really nothing added by including those intervention maps. There is already a detailed description of the geographical position of Tel Uvirith, including the destinations that the intervention spells target from that location. Providing navigation guides beyond this is really more the domain of the navigation pages themselves.
Secondly, the note that Tel Uvirith is more geographically remote compared to the other strongholds isn't intended as a knock against it, it is just a fact about the dwelling. Both pages already show how, even if Tel Uvirith is farther from points of interest, it can still be navigated to rather easily by the routes described. "Providing another point of view"--advocacy for Tel Uvirith, in other words--is the bias we're trying to avoid.
Lastly, while I've already mentioned that the Intervention maps are not useful additions to the Houses page, it does not make sense to link them in the Tel Uvirith section but not for the other strongholds. Nor does it make sense to include them at all without showing where the strongholds are located on the maps. But, again, editing the Intervention maps in this way would be an unnecessary project to undertake as it duplicates information already on that page, especially provided via the links to the Interactive Map in each section. I'll agree with Salamangkero and reiterate that, while the edits are well-intentioned, they are not needed. Thalass (talk) 20:37, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
Sorry but I need to ask, do you have anything against Telvanni? Look I'm out of here, but if putting a link to the intervention zone means endorsing something then we can argue about every line in the wiki. I find this hints on reddit not on this wiki, I think a wiki should be the most complete source of information but this is not the case , that's why I put them here. Other people on reddit found them useful, but if you think you should choose if those information are relevant to other people I give up. CyD (talk) 11:45, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
It would be rather silly to hold a grudge against a faction from a fantasy video game I first encountered 20 years ago, but I'll take your question seriously and reiterate that maintaining page neutrality is not "holding a grudge". As for the rest, it's already been explained how the information you edited onto the page(s) was subjective, redundant, or both, so please refrain from making opposition to those edits personal. Regarding your last remark, I'd add that reddit is a great place for the kind of discussion you were looking to have here. It isn't a flaw of the UESP that pages must be edited to a standard and thus be less conversational than a social media thread about the game. Thalass (talk) 17:44, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

() I think the note was actually fairly useful (although it could be condensed), and seems appropriate for the note section from the articles I've seen. From the initial claim for removing this note, I would have to dispute the notion that since this information is available on different pages that it shouldn't be included here. Putting together what CyD expressed in a single note versus visiting multiple other pages and expecting a reader to figure it out from there is not a satisfactory alternative in my opinion. As for the final line about how it is a convenient home for vampires, editing it to be more objective while still containing the same information is simple. Instead just have the note state "Vampires who have obtained the Aundae Amulet can also go X and take advantage of Y and Z". --AKB Talk Cont Mail 22:22, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

It actually is not necessary to navigate to other pages to get that information. The targets of the intervention spells from within the Tel Uvirith cells are already included on this page.
A long time ago, about a decade now, the various Morrowind housing pages were in disarray. If you check the discussion page for the Houses article, you can see the complaints about what was there back then. It was a mish-mash of walk-through advice, navigational pointers and pseudo-realtor jargon; by coincidence, Salamangkero, who just commented above, wrote an excellent breakdown of the problems and made useful suggestions as to what should count as noteworthy features of a home. Regarding location, Salamangkero proposed:
"Close proximity encompasses all areas that an NPC can reach within two non-teleporting/intervention interior-exterior/exterior-interior transitions. Exterior-exterior cell transitions do not count, however, they must be within reasonable limits (I know this is a subjective condition but, without this, Arrille's Tradehouse in Seyda Neen will be considered in "close proximity" to the Dunmer stronghold of Marandus in Molag Amur)"
When I rewrote the Houses page, the location data I included incorporated the relevant details about the various methods of travel in Morrowind. That is, where intervention spells point to when located inside the house's cells, what silt strider, boat, and guild-guide services were available at nearby towns, and what Propylon chambers were easiest to navigate to from the home. Of course, it'd be possible to make very detailed and anecdotal suggestions of how to travel to/from each of the homes, but this clutters the page and causes the exact complaints that the Houses page was mired in for years. Same goes for the sub-pages (e.g. the complaints about Telvanni favouritism on this discussion page, seen above).
So, with regards to the recent edits, I really must insist that subjective information about what homes are convenient for which characters must be avoided entirely, in my opinion. That is walkthrough information suited for elsewhere. As for an intervention spell map to show targets of nearby cells, that again begins to stray into the territory of what counts as "nearby", as Salamangkero raised years ago.
A line must be drawn somewhere, and that line should be consistent for each of the stronghold pages. Unfortunately, the change proposed here was apparently intended to counter a remark about Tel Uvirith's remoteness that the above user felt was a slight. That's generally not a good basis for edits, particularly when the page had touched on the intervention targets for the stronghold anyway. Thalass (talk) 02:31, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
In response to the above, I would like to bring up some featured articles as examples of the "ideal" place page. Although it was acknowledged as such years ago and our own writing standards have risen with time, here is what we considered to be a peak quality player house page. Here are a few other place pages for more examples. Although I don't necessarily agree with the presentation of this page before, some of the information removed in this edit should find its way onto a content complete version of this page.
And I apologize for my own confusion on the matter, but can you please specify where on this article is this information you listed as examples in this sentence? "That is, where intervention spells point to when located inside the house's cells, what silt strider, boat, and guild-guide services were available at nearby towns, and what Propylon chambers were easiest to navigate to from the home" I can see that the page has the first one listed, but not the rest. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 11:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Sure. There are far fewer player houses in Morrowind, for which the Houses page includes detailed information about what's available. That page lives up to the editing standard shown in the links you provided, especially Oblivion Houses. It's on that page that you find the location information you requested, which I'm happy to migrate here to cover any deficiencies:
Tel Uvirith is somewhat geographically remote. However, it benefits from its proximity to Wolverine Hall, which is accessible via Divine Intervention. At Wolverine Hall, one can find the Fighters and Mages Guilds, as well as the latter's Guild Guide service for fast travel throughout Vvardenfell. The boat from Sadrith Mora services Dagon Fel, Ebonheart, Tel Branora and Tel Mora. Almsivi Intervention connects to Molag Mar, which in turn has Silt Strider service to Suran and Vivec, as well as boat service to Hla Oad, Vivec and Tel Branora. The nearest Propylon Chamber is located at Falensarano to the north.
What specifically do you feel should be added back from the edit you linked? Bear in mind the political background is already included on the quest page (already linked on this page, which, in any case, is non-essential information for the dwelling itself), while detailed information on the location and contents of each home (including tables, links, write-ups, etc.) is on the Houses page where players can compare and contrast.
I'm happy to migrate over some of that work if that's the solution here. However, I think it's worth avoiding duplicate pages as much as possible, especially where the first sentence on this page is a disclaimer with a link telling users to check the houses page for more information about player housing.
For now, I'll go ahead and revise each of the stronghold pages to make sure the location information is up-to-date. Thalass (talk) 15:01, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
That was incredibly helpful, thank you. I think I am starting to get the root of the issue here, Morrowind:Houses should be set up to have the content of this page transcluded to it, or should just have a base summary and not multiple paragraphs of detail. If you look at Oblivion:Houses and Skyrim:Houses it just has a single summary paragraph for the houses for the most part. Essentially Morrowind:Houses should just have an introduction to the location and infotable, and then this page should have ALL relevant information for Tel Uvirith. This makes sense as you would expect a hub page to just provide summary information, while if you go to a specific page you would want all relevant information for that location to be present. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 15:16, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
No worries. As for the proposed changes to the Houses page, it is not substantially different from the Oblivion and Skyrim equivalents; what differences do exist are forgivable given the differences between the games. For starters, housing is considerably more sparse in Morrowind: we're talking about just 4 strongholds and 4 "dwellings", including both game expansions. That's easily covered by the scope of a single page.
Where the Morrowind Houses namespace has always operated in that way, and where having a dedicated page to read about and compare the available homes in detail is the point of such a page, I think it is a better idea to leave that page alone and supplement the sub-pages in places where they are seen to be lacking. I'm happy to undertake or help with that work, but it seems of primary importance to keep the Houses namespace as a comprehensively detailed and consolidated resource given the limited nature of housing in Morrowind. Thalass (talk) 16:14, 24 April 2022 (UTC)