Oblivion talk:A Brotherhood Betrayed

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Question about a step in this quest[edit]

Moving on to the Tap & Tack Inn, you will find Dralas there having a drink by himself. Any attempt to approach him will result in being rebuffed. Speaking with Olav though proves to be much more fruitful. With a little persuasion, Olav tells you that he knew Bradon and had actually seen him during the daytime, thus lending credence to the fact that he was not a vampire. He then gives you the key to Dralas' room in the hopes you will find something to clear Bradons name.

Olav is not really talking to me about Dralas. I've tried bribing him as much as possible, but that didn't help either. Also, the guards in the house where Bradon was killed didn't say much about Dralas. THey mentioned his name, but then said that they wouldn't tell me more 'cause they don't really know who I am. I wonder if there is some level or fame requirement at this point.

Anyone has info/suggestions ? Thanks in advance, --Krag 12:30, 25 March 2006 (EST)

There's another issue. I've never seen Dralas in the tavern. Could the author have confused him with Aval Uvani, another Dark Elf patron of the establishment? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 22:16 on 2 May 2007
I also noticed (wearing a life detect necklace) that someone is in fact inside Raynil's room during the day, but this was before I started the quest. As soon as I left the inn, I was met with the beginning of the quest. 05:04, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Hey guys[edit]

I had no issue with getting the info from the guards using a charm spell BUT Olav didnt wanna tell me anything about the "vamp hunter" even with max dispostion. So my only choice was to pick pocket Olav, worked like a charm. Entered the second room and got the items. — Unsigned comment by Amitz3 (talkcontribs) at 23:41 on 14 April 2006

Olav's disposition[edit]

Is there a pattern? My character's a Breton with current fame of 11. I couldn't persuade Olav above a disposition of 69, either, which means he won't talk. (Tried during the day, tried at night.) Pickpocketing sounds like a good idea--thanks. --Thistle 21:39, 14 April 2006 (EDT)

Different ending?[edit]

"You do actually have just one day to catch up with Dralas; otherwise, the quest ends slightly differently." - It would be interesting to get the details on this. I completed it within a day so couldn't check out a different outcome. Jondrasar 11:23, 18 April 2006 (EDT

Return to Bruma and speak with Erline to have the mundane amulets' true nature revealed: the leveled amulet Phylactery of Litheness as your reward.
As soon as I return to speak with Erline about the Mundane Amulet she wants me to hand it over so she can see it and so on. Problem being, when I end the conversation with her nothing happens. The Amulet doesn't get removed from me so I'm not sure how to end the quest...
Anyone have this problem or an idea on how to finish this quest?? Thanks..~Chrissie366 09:39, 4 October 2006
you have to have disposition to at least 70 — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 15:45 on 30 June 2011

Carius Meeting Glitch[edit]

When you go to Olav after the one hour, sometimes Carius doesn't show up at all. Any fix for this? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 17:42 on 3 June 2007

Are you on x-box 360 or PC? --Ratwar 17:24, 3 June 2007 (EDT)
PC version and I am using the Unofficial Oblivion Patch. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 23:23 on 3 June 2007
I had this problem too. :( — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 19:16 on 1 August 2007
same here, any help?? — Unsigned comment by ACExOFxSPADES (talkcontribs) at 09:36 on 28 October 2007
If you're on the PC, try using the console command setstage ms11 85. That might push it along. If not, try waiting a bit longer! --RpehTCE 06:41, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
no; PS3 :s — Unsigned comment by ACExOFxSPADES (talkcontribs) at 10:05 on 29 October 2007‎

() I have encountered this glitch on the PC version, even with the Unofficial Oblivion Patch- I found out though that if you wait for 1 hour in Carius' house, he will not leave the building, but if you talk to him he will continue on with the quest as if you were in the Tap and Tack. Must be some issue with his routing. 5 June 2013

Glitch (finding Carius Runellius)[edit]

I had the Brotherhood Betrayed quest available since I went to Bruma, but when I decided to start it, I could not find Carius Runellius (neseccary to start the quest) anywhere. I tried using console commands to spawn the character, but I get an error that no script is saved. This might go along with the random NPC disappearances, but I need a way to finish this quest. Reloading from a previous save is impossible because I am 50+ hours into the game from the start of the quest. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 18:21 on 30 June 2007

HOW TO FIND that Dark Elf "Vampire Hunter" when Carius is unavailable for meeting
i had this same problem and this is what worked for me
you can just skip that part and head straight for Boreal Cave or something like that
just leave Bruma via the North Gate
and simply head directly west
after a little while you'll eventually get to the cave where the Dark Elf is
just engage him in conversation and he will say i knew you'd find me eventually......blah blah...kill him and then you can get the amulute and complete the quest.
word up
hope this helps all. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 17:58 on 18 May 2009

Glitch? (bear, wolf, hearts)[edit]

After killing Raynil I got out of the cave and saw a Brown Bear and a Timber wolf walking side by side with hearts displaying above their heads. I thoght both would attack me but they didn't. It was kinda weird and funny at the same time. I'm playing the game on the PS3 version.--Papito007 20:09, 21 August 2007 (EDT)

I saw something similar when halfway through that one quest for the ayliad statues, wierd but only got a few seconds glance. I think this should be put on the easter eggs page, or something similar Mikeyboy52 15:17, 26 December 2009 (UTC)


This infact is obviously not the only quest in the game with a time limit- can no-one remember that small little known quest called something like... main.. quest? y'know, the one with the great gate. That has a 15 minute time limit, in case you forgot. Corrected in article. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 22:43 on 3 November 2007

Glitch (crash to desktop)[edit]

My game crashes to desktop after a short amount of time on my latest save, probably due to this quest. I had the same problem someone described above about meeting Carius, so I went a bit outside, then back in, he still wasn't there. Then I waited an extra hour outside the Tap & Tack, and while waiting, my game crashed. Now, whenever I load the autosave taken just before waiting, the game crashes after a small amount of time, always the same amount of time. (probably the point at which Carius enters the inn, and most likely related to the in-game time) It also crashes if I wait (the time it takes to crash when just standing around is just a couple of in-game minutes) or fast-travel, but not if I go inside a building in the 15-ish seconds before it crashes. My prior saves, which are quite a while before, crash right after the loading screen. Any help? I'm gonna try the console command someone provided, hoping it'll keep whatever event causes the crash to happen, but I'm not sure it'll do anything. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 02:16 on 21 November 2007

Crash to desktop[edit]

So, I had this problem where my game crashed to desktop everytime I tried to go to Tap & Tack Inn to wait for Carius Runellius. First I thought I'd get done with it if I went outside and waited for him there. Didn't help. No matter where I was, the game crashed about after one hour (game time, not real, unless you've scaled the time... ah, nevermind). I tried to use setstage ms11 85 for it, but it didn't help. Waiting a little bit longer didn't help, because it crashed immediately after the loading window disappeared. And I didn't like the sound of completing the whole quest with cheats, so I just decided to skip that one little part of the quest. So, my solution to this little crashing problem is to use setstage ms11 85 and setstage ms11 90 . I guess it could work with just the setstage ms11 90 so you wouldn't have to do extra work, but I didn't try that way, so I just mention that option too. I did this before I went to talk to Carius. I hope it helps you.

So, just open up the console (using the ~ -button, or as it is in my keyboard: §/½ -button) and type setstage ms11 90. Now you can continue with the quest. I didn't get any other crashes after that. — Unsigned comment by Enedbelethiel (talkcontribs) at 19:09 on 18 January 2008

I also got this CTD on a fully patched game with all addons and the unofficial patch. I reloaded it several times and it kept crashing while I was waiting on the guard to meet me at the Inn. The console command helped me get past it. Thanks for the info. -- 11:59, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

VN Tag.[edit]

  • You don't have to wait for Raynil to talk to you to attack him. Sneak attacking with a ranged weapon while in the cave will still trigger an update that says that you attacked "in self-defense". This, however, may count as a murder. {{VN|Well does it or doesn't it? People "may" do some research before posting, but it looks like they don't}}

Look, the only real way to know for sure that it counts as a murder is when it attracts the attention of the Dark Brotherhood. However, the character I was playing was the freakin' Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, so no one really cares in game if I murder someone. I wasn't keeping score of my hapless murders when I mistakenly came across this little tid-bit, and I didn't feel like rolling a new character just to find out whether or not it counted as a murder, so don't berate me on the need for verification just because of a single sentence that mentions an uncertainty rather than an absolute. It's not the end of the world.

Why don't we ask someone to try it? --Darkheart 21:00, 2 March 2009 (EST)

You don't need to test it for that. We're talking about Raynil Dralas, right? So we just go to his NPC page and look at his factions. We see he belongs to the Raynil Dralas Faction, which is an EEEEVIL faction. This tells us everything we need to know: it is never a murder to kill members of EEEEEVIL factions. --Gez 06:37, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Weird Occurrence[edit]

I was toward the end of the quest when I went into the cave to confront Raynil. I didn't feel like fighting so I drank an invisibility potion, pick pocketed the three keys, unlocked the chest and stole the amulet. I snuck out without him noticing anything. I went back to deliver the prize to the widow and she remarked that she was glad Raynil was now dead. He's not! 16:55, 22 April 2009 (EDT) BlueCat

That shouldn't have happened. The chest requires all three keys and cannot be picked. --Darkheart 10:44, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
This is true, I ended up doing the same thing while playing on Xbox; I was experimenting like I always do in Oblivion. When I did it though I used bloodgrass; he will still "see you" and walk towards you when you're invisible but if you sneak past him & ran w/ him following you, try to get him on top of the area that's lit up then run into the nearby tunnel out of sight, he will stop following you. Make sure you are invisible before you go back out towards him, sneak behind him and if your lucky you can pickpocket all three keys, open the chest, get the amulet, and leave without fighting/killing him; finish the quest, go back to the cave, and voila he's still alive!!! 21:59 17 March 2010 — Unsigned comment by (talk)

Staff of Worms[edit]

I resurrected the murdered begger in the basement via the staff of worms. Then I decided to hit him with my most powerful spell that does 800 damage in 2 seconds. He collapsed to the ground and got back up. He was a Nord so that ment he only took 750 damage, but the murdered begger survived 3 of thoes spells. If equipped with weapons the murdered begger can become an invincible ally. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 20:35 on 23 December 2009

completed without killing[edit]

after sneaking around for a while with raynil following me, i finally got him to stop moving (i went into one of the illuminated corners of the cave) and took the three keys from him, and got the amulet. i then completed the quest without killing him, but everyone said that i had killed him. i went back to check on him in the cave, and he was gone — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 00:06 on 3 September 2010

Erline is inconsistent[edit]

Having found Gelebourne's Journal, talk with Erline and she will tell you she remembers Gelebourne was in the brotherhood her husband and Raynil started. Gelebourne aside, apparently Raynil founding a brotherhood with her husband wasn't worth mentioning to the player or the Guard - the same man she is suddenly happy to identify as the killer, despite - by her account - him being an unidentified Dark Elf before the discovery of the journal. Very suspicious. I think she was going to skip town with the Dunmer; though with him dead her dreams were crushed. I sympathetically ran my blade through her. -- 23:30, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Moved Bug[edit]

  • If you speak with Carius about the murder after finding the journal, he will then 'rouse the guard' and run out of the house, if the player catches him before he leaves and tries to speak to him just as he opens the door, the game will freeze. [Only on PS3, verification needed for other consoles]

I've removed this bug from the main article. It sounds like a one-off, so (like the author says) it needs to be verified. Legoless 18:13, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Special Word[edit]

If it's worth mentioning, the special word she murmurs is "Brotherhood," although the hood part is muffled by spell sounds.

We already mention that in this section. rpeh •TCE 06:23, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Diary Lost[edit]

I found the journal in the room, read it, and went back to Bradons house. I can't show/give it to Carius Runellius and it isn't showing up in my inventory. I went back to the room where I found it, and it's not there either. What do I do? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 12:31 on 12 February 2012

If you're on a gaming console, the only thing you can do is to reload from an older save and try again. If you're on a PC, you can advance the quest manually by following the instructions at the bottom of the Journal Entries section of the article. If you the problem still happens on the second time, or you can't get the manual quest advancement to work, just reply to this message and I'll look into it a bit more deeply. Robin Hoodtalk 07:22, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

He Wont Show Up[edit]

Can anybody help me? When Carius Runllius tells me to go to the Tap and Tack in an hour, when I went he wasn't there so I tried to wait another hour and he still didn't show up can anybody tell me how or what to do? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 17:41 on 9 August 2013‎

This seems to be a bug that happens from time to time. Taken from the bugs section of the quest page: "Carius will fail to appear at Olav's Tap and Tack if this event is triggered in the last few hours of the last day of the current game month due to a timer bug. If this happens, go straight to Boreal stone Cave and confront Raynil there. The cave is west of Applewatch." So, I would suggest just heading to Boreal Stone Cave and confronting Raynil there and ignore meeting up with Carius. Forfeit (talk) 17:50, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

Cannot read diary (glitch?)[edit]

I see the journal behind the drawer but cannot reach it. I tried to move it using spells and arrows. I'm on Xbox360.

Ayleid Ruin?[edit]

Does anyone know if it is actually possible to find an Ayleid ruin in-game that fits the description in Gelebourne's journal? If so, that would be a noteworthy thing to add to the article. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 13:28 on 2 October 2015‎

The book speaks of a spider trap. There are no Ayleid ruins in Oblivion that have such a trap. It is therefore unlikely that the Ayleid ruin referred to in the book exists in Oblivion. Wolok gro-Barok (talk) 01:05, 3 October 2015 (UTC)