Oblivion talk:Bejeen

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Recent Reversions (Nocturnals Link)[edit]

2 Reversions have happened recently, and well. Is 'Prince' or 'Princess' as the description for Nocturnal? On the page she is referred to as 'Mistress', 'Mother' and 'Princess'. But a quick scan back of talk pages shows a slightly deeper problem. Should we refer to Nocturnal as a Daedric Prince? Or Princess? Prince is the 'standard' but, princess seems to be the most used term for Nocturnal. Any thoughts? --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 20:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmm...looking through several older conversations on the topic, I didn't find much in the way of consistency. Same in reading several lore books. But it is my opinion that Prince is the generic term for all of the Daedra Lords. Princess, I think, assumes that they are a she. But of course they do not possess this mortal characteristic. That's the basic argument I have. I am not too strongly attached to it though, although Daedra Princess sounds strange... --DKong27 Tk Ctr Em 20:22, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
This is an old topic and there's still no clear answer. See this for instance, which in turn refers to an older topic.
In the specific case of Oblivion, Nocturnal is definitely "female" inasmuch as gender applies. We have the following lines of dialogue:
Skrivva: "He is the greatest of all thieves. I have heard it said that he stole his gray cowl from Nocturnal herself."
Methredhel: "That Gray Cowl he wears was stolen from Nocturnal herself. Can you imagine having the nerve to steal from a Daedric Lord?"
Francine Velain: "We are not afraid of the dark. The Night Mistress gives us eyes to see night's secrets."
Dhola: "We seek what the darkness hides, and the Night Mistress is our guide."
TG members: "You're kidding. Everybody knows Nocturnal. She is the daedra lord of shadows. The Mistress of Mystery. The Saint of Suspicion. Thieves Guild members revere and respect her power and influence. We give her blessing with the phrase 'may shadow hide you.'"
All of that uses "herself", "mistress", "her" and "she", but note that two lines also call her a "daedra lord". There's no dialogue anywhere calling Nocturnal "he", "him" etc - just "lord".
The best solution here is probably to cop out and use a form of words that avoids gender altogether. rpeh •TCE 06:52, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, would Daedra Lord be better than Daedra Prince for not being 'overly male'? Or should because of the seeming in-game consensus on Nocturnal being referred to as a 'female' we change it back to Princess. But only for the Oblivion namespace? --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 07:43, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
"Lord" is still a pretty male-specific title, although it's probably okay here given that it's used by other NPCs. I've found the other discussion I remembered - here. "Princess" is used in the OB-specific book Purloined Shadows, so it's not wrong here. Why not use another of her titles - Saint of Suspicion, perhaps? rpeh •TCE 08:28, 25 October 2011 (UTC)