Oblivion talk:Kurdan gro-Dragol

Invisible?

Is this guy supposed to be partially invisible? When I found him in Bravil, he had a Chameleon spell on him, much like the residents of Aleswell. It remained even at the fort, until I killed him. --142.161.35.60 23:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

His equipment is leveled and at higher levels can be enchanted, so it's possible he had gear with a chameleon enchantment. He certainly isn't supposed to be partially invisible. ^Talk Wolok gro-Barok _{Contributions} 17:15, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Same for me, just finished the quest. He wore a Mithril cuirass with 20% chameleon, being hard to hit. And hard to find initially. 31.18.83.140 22:48, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Comments on the new page - for the CS checker

Just wanted to point out a few things about his brand new page;

• The inventory section is a poor attempt to write about his belongings when all you have is a level 15 character - it could very well be wrong, but I checked at three different levels and the gauntlets and greaves always seemed enchanted, at least when he is wandering at the Lonely Suitor. How leveled his equipment exactly is, I don't know - the exact details should be written from the CS, but I decided to start if off anyway, mostly because of the layout - and because we have to start somewhere anyway.
• The page still needs a bug note (and the appropriate link in the schedule) - I know RobinHood70 is investigating the bug right now - and hopefully he will soon add whatever he finds to the page.

That's all. --Krusty 16:30, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I've fixed the armor details. It was almost right, but any of the items can be enchanted. I'll leave the bug for RH70 if he's already on it. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Agressive behavior

this investigation was originally started on User_talk:Krusty but was moved here for convinience and easier access.

He seems to have something affecting his Agression. See OB_talk:Daenlin for details. Also why is he attacking Bosmer in the first place?--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 16:31, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I have no idea. I tried to figure out some kind of pattern a while back but came up with nothing. I'll take another look when I can find the time, but in theory, this is a task for someone with the CS, as we can only observe the problem - not what is causing it. Maybe RH70 can take a look at some point? --Krusty 17:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I called in S'drassa since RH has a cold right now. Hope that works!--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 17:47, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

The only thing I can think of is that Daenlin somehow attacked him. Kurdan's aggression is 5 and it isn't changed by any script (he attacks Aleron and you through a "StartCombat" script rather than changing his aggression), but his confidence is 95, which means he needs to lose 95% of his health before he'll start to run away if attacked. There's no AI package that would cause him to attack either. rpeh •T•C•E• 18:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Good theory. The problem is one of the people set Kurdan's Aggression to 0 - and was then quite definite that it was Kurdan who attacked Nordinor. Even if we assume that they attack him, why? They don't have any more reason to attack him than he does to kill them them!--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 18:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit: I've personally seem him attack one of these people before although I just remembered it now.--TheAlbinoOrc^{any_questions?} 18:19, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I had another look and I don't see anything either. I'm unable to get anybody to go hostile at all. My best guess is that there's an ownership issue of some kind, but I don't see anybody who should be using or taking anything that's owned, so I'm stumped. If anybody on the PC has a saved game where they reliably (or even just occasionally) transition from peaceful to violent, please let me know so I can get you to send it to me. – Robin Hood↝talk 23:05, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

(←) My only guess regarding this problem is that something similar to Telaendril's issue happens. Due to Kurdan's low responsibility, when he switches to his eating package, instead of buying it legally he must instead try to steal it. Since NPCs get annoyed when they witness a crime, Daenlin must get angry towards Kurdan and, assuming their disposition towards each other is really low (which must be, since Kurdan has 30 personality and Daenlin has 45), Daenlin decides to attack Kurdan. Since other NPCs have a higher disp towards Daenlin than Kurdan (since he also isn't part of the Bravil faction), they will decide to side with Daenlin instead. You can verify this if you hear someone screaming "Stop! Thief!" or something similar, other than this I really don't have any explanation for the issue. --S'drassa ^•T2M 02:32, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

That can't be it either. He carries a respawning piece of food so why would he steal when his eat package comes around instead of just eating what's in his inventory?--TAO^Huh? 21:42, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The food would only respawn every 72 hours, I believe, so that could still be it, but a responsibility of 30 is supposed to be enough that Kurdan wouldn't steal, so I'm still at a loss. – Robin Hood↝talk 02:13, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I tried, with the best intentions, to take another look at Kurdan's behavior last night - but, like RH70, I just couldn't make it happen. Everybody, including Kurdan and Daenlin, just did what they were supposed to and everything was peaceful - and I even tested it between 8pm and 10pm every day for a whole week. Now, I know Kurdan is not trying to steal anything (just like I know Graklak gro-Buglump is not trying to steal anything either) so maybe we should take a look at the regulars instead, just to see if anybody can cause trouble? We have a Mythic Dawn sleeper agent (Ranaline), a hostile traveling merchant and we can also add the fact that Daenklin's schedule is bugged on Sundas. All four Bravil members of the Thieves Guild visits the Lodge and even a member of the Blackwood Company, Jee-Tah is wandering around the taproom. Like with Graklak in Skingrad, something extremely weird is going on - but we can't keep using the old "he tries to steal food"-explanation forever. --Krusty 02:43, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

How are we sure Graklak doesn't steal? I though everything on his talk page pointed to that?--TAO^Huh? 23:13, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, NPCs will go into Sneak mode if they decide to steal from other NPCs - Kurdan will never do that, and neither will Graklak. Something else is going on, and I'm on my way to do some testing with and without Mythic Dawn agents around. --Krusty 08:40, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

(←) In case it helps anybody else investigating this, I've compiled a list of when everybody should be in The Lonely Suitor. This list is based solely on the AI schedule, so doesn't include travel times, and may not be 100% accurate in cases where the AI is more complex than it appears at first blush, I goofed, or schedules are added/the NPC is teleported as a result of the quest's or NPC's scripting.

NPC	Time/Quest Stage
Alval Uvani	All day Morndas/Tirdas after A Matter of Honor is started
Bogrum Gro-Galash	Always (proprietor).
Daenlin	Every day, 8pm–10pm
Dro'shanji	Weekends, 6pm–10pm
Jean-Pierre Lemonds	All day Loredas
Jee-Tah	Always, except during More Unfinished Business
KellenKotN	Pseudo-randomly after Stendarr's Mercy, Stage 60 (Note: he travels from one city to the next, so it could be any time. Didn't see anything that made it obvious how long he stays, so he may turn around again almost right away.)
Kurdan gro-Dragol	Any time during Caught in the Hunt before Stage 75
Luciana Galena	Every day, Noon–2pm
Nordinor	Every day, 9am–2pm
Ranaline	Every day, 8am–10pm
S'Krivva	Every day, 8pm–10pm; Tirdas/Turdas, 9am–9pm (=10pm due to Every Day schedule)
Samuel Bantien	12th of every month from 9am–Noon the next day (Note: this is probably hit by the past-midnight schedule bug, so I think that's 9am–Midnight the next day, but not sure.)
Winson	30th of every month from 10am–10am the next day (Note: this is probably hit by the past-midnight schedule bug, as above.)

– Robin Hood↝talk 23:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Could his StartCombat package be glitched allowing it to start randomly? Also, RH I stole your table and added some sections to it (Affects Problem and Theories). Hope you don't mind!--TAO^Huh? 02:26, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

@RH: You're welcome! @All: Of course if it his scripting that's the problem we still don't know what Graklak gro-Buglump is doing but one seemingly impossible NPC a week is enough right? 8}.--TAO^Huh? 02:32, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

I just knew you were gonna start talking about Graklak if we solved this problem! ;) In truth, I think you might be onto something. From a quick look at the script, it looks like Kurdan might go hostile if Aleron Loche dies "before his time". I'm just about to go in-game and see what happens if I kill him prematurely while still in the Lodge with Kurdan. – Robin Hood↝talk 02:37, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, it was a nice theory while it lasted, but Kurdan gets teleported out if Aleron dies, so that's not it. I'm off for a quick snack - I'll do some more testing afterwards and reply if I get anywhere. – Robin Hood↝talk 02:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Still no luck here. Even just forcing Kurdan to start combat with me, regardless of actually triggering any script/quest actions, Daenlin just stands there like a bump on a log, and Nordinor actually runs away! – Robin Hood↝talk 03:55, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Maybe you're going about this wrong? What if the script that causes him to attack Aleron is activated? Then Daenlin and Nordinor would respond because they share faction membership with him.--{{SUBST: Oblivion talk:Kurdan gro-Dragol/Sandbox/Signature2 }} 17:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

(←) Next theory? I teleported Aleron to the Lodge and they both happily wandered around. Forcing them to start combat, nobody came to help, and Aleron actually won the combat all three times...though I was only level 1, so Kurdan had really low health. – Robin Hood↝talk 21:14, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Can his StartCombat script "lose" its target?--Ghurhak gro-Demril^{You would talk?} 21:27, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Bosmer and Orcs have a minus five disposition towards each other. Since Daenlin and Nordinor don't share factions then couldn't this be a faction/racial disposition issue rather than a complicated bug?--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 17:22, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It could be, except for the fact that they don't normally attack each other (or anybody else, for that matter — their Aggression is 5, which basically makes them flower children). So if it's one of them, what's triggering the attack? – Robin Hood↝talk 06:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Is it possible for disposition to go negative? If anyone on the PC gets this to happen (I've never seen it myself), please can they use the GetDisposition console command to find out Kurdan's disposition towards whoever he's attacking. See this for instructions on how to do it. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:13, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Warhammer?

On the page it says he attacks you with a war hammer, but when he attacked me he had a claymore, i did the same quest with three guys and he had an enchanted claymore — Unsigned comment by 68.231.197.3 (talk) on 16 June 2011

You're right, it's a random two-handed weapon. I've fixed it. --SerCenKing ^Talk 08:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

gro-Dragol's premature death?

Unfortunately I waited a while after first talking to him. I came back several days later to ask to go to the island and he was dead on the second floor. I'm playing on PS3 (5th anniversary edition), so I can't use the console to fix it. Is there any work around? Also consider adding this to bugs. — Unsigned comment by 72.205.22.218 (talk) at 03:08 on 22 July 2011

We have an on-going (and unsolved) oddity at the Lonely Suitor Lodge. Look at this section for clues. Unfortunately, we cannot determine why it is happening, so we cannot explain how to avoid the guests getting themselves killed. You need to reload an earlier save in any case. --Krusty 07:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)