Semi Protection

Oblivion talk:Thieves Guild/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Oblivion_talk:Thieves Guild discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.


Could someone with a character NOT in the guild check if Orrin in Anvil Castle provides normal smithy services to non-thieves? It would be a funny limitation, because you can't sell anything to him till you end all the Doyen quests as a thief, meaning you lose access to a decent trader by joining the guild :) --Vook 08:26, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

Like all guild fences, Orrin says "I don't know what you're talking about" if a non-guild-member clicks his merchant icon. He has no repair icon. -- marbx Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:00 UTC
I'm having the same problem with the "Taking Care of Lex" mission ending and then the messenger never comes to deliver me a message from the Gray Fox. Does anyone know how to get this working properly? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 28. April 2008


Copied from article: When you're given a new fence with an advance in rank, you will not be able to use any other fence until you meet and deal with the new fence.

Is this true? I don't think it is, but I have no Oblivion right now. Could someone confirm or deny and remove this comment if necessary? Thanks --Actreal 22:33, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
I advanced in rank, got access to Dar Jee, when I talk to him he starts off with "Do you need a fence?" but there is no fence/merchant option. (edit) Either by pestering him a bunch more times, or more likely, by waiting until he went into the inn, it now works. --JDHannan 22:23, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
I just noticed this, too. I'm going to remove the statement, because it is not true, nor has it been for as long as I've played the game, and I've played pre-patch. If anyone can point out how it might happen, we can add it back with that caveat. --Mikekearn 19:53, 11 June 2007 (EDT)
While the original phrase doesn't apply to properly working game mechanics, I believe it has merit as a glitch, possibly as an extention of the "sell too many items" bug. I've played through the game dozens of times as a Thieves Guild member, and on my current game, I an unable to access either Dar Jee or Ongar the World-Weary despite having advanced in rank. This has not happened before. The only difference this time is that I seem to have fenced too many items and the quest Ahdarji's Heirloom was added to my log prior to my speaking to S'krivva. I was able to complete both this quest and the following quest, Misdirection, with no problem; however, if I had my guess, the bug seems to be linked with Ahdarji's Heirloom, though clearly more testing is needed. --Sarasvati // 11:16, 30 June 2007 (EDT)


I fenced way too many items early on, and I'm having problems now. I have completed all of Armand Christophe's quests, and am working on the Ahdarji's Heirloom quest. The problem here is that I've already met with the Grey Fox twice, completed the "Turning a Blind Eye" and "Arrow of Extrication" quests, and am a master thief in the Theives Guild, with access to every fence. I'm also stuck on the Ahdarji's Heirloom quest, as the Countess isn't taking off the ring. When I met with Amusei, he was in the thieves guild and told me to meet the Grey Fox, at which point I did the Arrow of Extrication quest. I can't seem to complete the "Ahdarji's Heirloom" quest, and seeing as I'm on the Xbox 360 version, I can't think of what I can do next. I'm afraid if I complete the Ahdarji's Heirloom quest, I'll be demoted instead. Has this happened to anyone else? — Unsigned comment by RvB Pivate Caboose (talkcontribs) on 17. October 2006

This question does not have anything to do with the progress of the article. Please ask questions like this on the UESPWiki:Reference Desk, and please follow the guidelines on how to post the question. Thanks! --Aristeo 20:42, 16 October 2006 (EDT)
Sorry. It seems time fixed the problem anyways. The ring apeared in the Jewlry box by itself at 6 PM, and I was demoted after completing the quest. Sorry for the improper post. — Unsigned comment by RvB Pivate Caboose (talkcontribs) on 21. October 2006

Problem 2

Arghh - I'm stuck on the Independent Thievery Mission and have a feeling there is a glitch. I have fenced the 600 gold as the mission requested and waited around in the imperial city as instucted waited 24 hours as a whole and 24 hours individually and nothing happens. Tried waiting in various inns in the city, but no luck. Have fenced well over the required amount now and just cant get the messenger to meet me! Tried to spawn Methredhel (who is supposed to meet you) using the player.placeatme 34E99 command, but that doesn't help. I havent used any cheats on the game and dont really want to start all over! - can anyone help? - Si. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 18. October 2006

How much did to travel around? Did you stop by any other cities on the way? --Sir Newb de Mathenay
He took about two days to meet me. He came to me shortly after I had robed a spell shop. Try robing a place and see if he comes to you after that. -White Hawk — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 24. January 2007
- REPLY: See the workaround at the bottom of this page. Get caught stealing in the imperial city, pay the fine, amusei spawns on top of you at the imperial prison district. Please let us know if this works for you. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 29. August 2007
-SOLUTION: Go to Methedrel's house in the waterfront and wait in four-hour segments until she shows up and gives you the message. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 3. February 2008

Problem 3(sorta)

The on-going quest called "Independent Thievery" had a very long delay before updating for the 800 Gold fence. I travelled two places and tried to find the fence without the quest marker and after about 30 mins of just walking around the city it updated with a message and a marker marking where the fence was.

Anyone else have a long delay like this? –White Hawk — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 24. January 2007

F@#$%KING 96!

Ok, i finally got my 100% chamelion suit (REALLY horrid at stealth)and passed through some Thieve's guild missions. i got to the 100$ Indipendant Theivery thing and have sold AT LEAST 100$ to ongar, but it only says i have 96! i sell some more-96$ sold! Try again, 96$ sold! may be i'm not stealing stolen stuff, though :p-My sigil stones wont show up. Any ideas here?

-m'aiq the liar 20:12, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Update: i thought you could sell non-stolen items :p — Unsigned comment by Maiq the liar (talkcontribs) on 26. Jauary 2007
sounds like youre just flat-out not seelling stolen items — Unsigned comment by FireLord (talkcontribs) on 31. July 2008


i need to do the Elven maiden quest, but i cant talk to the peasants- I killed them with a frenzy spell. Is there any alternatives (I.E going straight to the undercroft?) Straight to the undercroft is working so far... — Unsigned comment by Maiq the liar (talkcontribs) on 26. January 2007

Added Doyen info

Added a short descriptor to lead into the concept of doyens for people, also has seprate page that might need to be deleted but you can add as a linked entry to the seperate term page if needed. Reordered some aspects of the advantage section to make it easier to read. --MacFodder 01:35, 7 February 2007 (EST)

How do I get more quest from the thieves guild?

I now fence over 150 stolen goods but can't find the person to start the second quest.--ShakenMike 00:58, 24 February 2007 (EST)

Click on the "Oblivion" link on the left hand side of this page, then click the word "Quests". Click the word "Thieves Guild," (or whatever other questline you are pursuing), and from there click the quest you are trying to start. This will take you to the quest page, which contains details on how to start the quest, how to complete the quest, who gives the quest, and links to all relevant pages. This should help you find information pertaining to any quest. If you read through the entire quest page, and have tried all relevant links, and are still having a problem, then post a message on the appropriate talk page. --GuildKnight 23:26, 24 February 2007 (EST)

Another bug

I just began doing the independant thievery, and completed the first special mission. Now I just checked and for some reason it removed the finsihed quest details for those and only the one about joining the thieves guild remains. The Bruma fence has normal conversation options and all of a sudden in my screen that lists the guilds i'm in the thieves guild isn't up. Also, when I visit Armand there is no information that could help me get back into it. Aggravating. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 2. March 2007

-- I'm having the exact same problem; I completed the Hieronius Lex mission, then went to the blind prophet sanctuary and completed that quest, then it told me to sit and wait for the Grey Fox to call on me.. It's now been a really long time and when I reactivate the mission to wait for the Gray fox, it displays the map marker at Castle anvil, and it ultimately points to Orren. Of course nothing happens when i go talk to him.. nothing gets highlighted in the question prompt.. so kind of a dead end. I had a quest altering problem before with Oblivion and had to completely restart my game because of it and before I was a level 27 when that happened so I was pissed. Now I am a level 22 on this quest log and little bugs are starting to ruin my missions..

A disappointing end...

Well, on finishing the TG line, becoming the guildmaster is sadly lacking in comparison to the on-going roles of the other guilds. Is there truly nothing else? It seems quite badly realised given the work you put in as a character... Is the Dunbarrow mod supposed to compensate in some small way for the stealth-aligned? --MacFodder 04:58, 8 March 2007 (EST)

Well, it might seem a bit lacking, but I don't think it's that bad: no other guild gives you your own private apartment, including very nice trophies. And of course, don't forget the awesome cowl. Lastly, the Dark Brotherhood may be 'on-going', but the only thing you get is a lousy one-week 'rent' of 200 gold (plus, of course, a few shabby murderers- but are those really as good as the much more alive people you had before?). M'aiq rests his case (: M'aiqM'aiq thinks talk serves no purpose. 16:46, 11 August 2007 (EDT)

Draconian Madstone

Or do the qwest Quests:Bruma:Lifting the Vale first and save the Items:Draconian Madestone. This Artifac gave jou 50% resist disease

This comment has been added twice under Player Tips, but I see absolutely no connection between getting the Draconian Madstone and tips for Thieves Guild. Thieves have no special need for resist disease enchantments, and getting a legally-obtained artifact does nothing to help with meeting the fenced items requirement. --Nephele 13:44, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

I agree, it's totally uselees for thieves, in the last quest you do face undead, but you face more undead with fighters or mages guild. David 13:34, 18 June 2007 (EDT)


In the glitches section it says problems arise if you fence too many items before doing the quests.. Is this really a widespread problem because I always sell thousands of septims worth of loot and have no problems advancing the quests on the 360 version. I have done the same in many games and still reached the end of the thieves guild line without errors ??? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 2. April 2007

I too have fenced well beyond my current Thieves Guild quest amounts (10,000 gold by the time I met the Gray Fox in person), and haven't had any problems whatsoever. I suspect this is out-dated (i.e., pre-patch), only occurs under certain circumstances, or maybe it's just plain wrong. --Robin Hood 23:06, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
I've only gotten as far as Boots of Springheel Jak, but I also haven't had any problems with fencing too many items (and I've sold more items than I should have ever since the start of the Thieves Guild quests). I noticed another comment somewhere suggesting that the problem might actually be talking to your doyen about the next quest but then saying you're not ready to do the quest yet. When you go back to be given the quest again, the dialogue option isn't there. It's definitely something that it would be interesting to test out and understand what causes these problems. --NepheleTalk 23:38, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

I have fenced almost 8k of items. The last "Independent Thievery" update I received says I've only fenced 800 gold. I completed the quest for "Sins of the Father" and now Fathis hates me...won't talk to me or anything. My quest marker is pointing me to him and won't go away. I've gone and talked to Amusei many times and he never has anything new for me. Looks like I'm stuck between quests without anyway to proceed. I am playing this on the 360 so I can't apply unsupported patches nor can I enter console commands. --Quarky42Talk 14:38, 7 July 2007 (EDT)

I have fenced 1500 gold worth, and I don't get a message saying I've fenced 600. Ahnd no one seems to know how to help, either. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 17. July 2007
I too am having this problem. I fenced 5500 worth of stolen items before Springheel Jak's quest and cannot take on the Ultimate Heist quest. The Fox sits in the same spot and tells me to go away, he is busy. I also completed the Sins of our father quest, before attempting the Heist quest. Help!! — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 25. July 2007
Same here & same thing I got to Springheel Jak I fenced over 5,000 I finished the quest which it said I did but never updated saying I fenced 1,000. I am still at 800. Hmmmmmmmmmm Glitch? I waited for Amuesi no show of course. I don't know the code to get to Activate. Who knows the code or knows how to fix this Glitch? SetStage or something??? Thanks ThelucksterLucky D. UnderwoodTheluckster (05:28, 2 August 2007)
I've been playing through these on the 360 and exclusively using Khafiz in Dunbarrow Cove as my fence. Fencing to him counts for stolen goods too, apparently, as every time I finish a Thieves' Guild quest, the game tells me I've already sold enough loot through Independent Thievery. This glitch hasn't touched me yet. So if you're stuck just because Fathis hates you and won't take your loot, you might try stealing more and selling to Khafiz. 10:47, 13 August 2007 (EDT)muncie underscore girl at yahoo dot com.
The glitch is true. If you fence for example 2,000 gold BEFORE you receive the quest/journal-entry for the lower independent thievery quests (100 – 500 gold or whatever), when you finally receive the notification of those quests at the appropriate time, they will NEVER BE CLOSED OR COMPLETED, even though you have already fenced more than that amount. Fortunately it hasn't stopped me from receiving new special jobs, because the NPC's seem to recognize that I have 'finished' the independent thievery quests-- it's just that the quest/journal engine doesn't recognize it. It's annoying to have 'open' quests that I’ve actually finished, and I'm not sure if there will be glitch consequences of this in the future. Does anyone know how to fix it with the console? I think there's a UESP page with all the quest progress codes for thieves guild missions. 12:08, 25 September 2007 (EDT)
Would this glitch apply to me too? My problem is that I right after I delivered the "Arrow of Extrication" my journal entry for "Independent Thievery" doesn't update. I HAVE fenced MUCH more than is necessary, but this was never a problem before. Can I still continue?-- 22:55, 18 November 2007 (EST)

(outdent) I sold over 20k worth of stolen goods before I completed the first quest and had no problems. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 1. January 2008

I just finished the Taking Care of Lex quest (last for S'Krivva ) and was notified I needed to have fenced 600 gold worth of swag to begin my next task. The problem was I had over 1300 gold worth of swag registered. I spent a few weeks waiting in the imperial city without luck of being visited like a lot of other people with this bug. I decided to try it all over again from the start, making sure not to overpay my fences. The problem still persisted. I think the problem might be going to the Temple of the Ancestor Moths too soon. I bumped into the temple while looking for Will o' Wisps during the Azura daedric quest and just snuck around, looted the place, and left. Little did I know that it would royaly bone the theives guild quests by glitching Methredhel. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 16. January 2008
I cant sell stolen loot to Fathis Ules because i did Sins of the Father and i gave the sword to the castle, how can i fix this so i can get the best money for stolen goods? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 27. June 2008


After joining the thieves guild, I fenced a few thousand septims worth of stolen items immediately, after finishing taking care of Lex, I received the message that I fenced 600 and should wait for a messenger from the gray fox before the message that I should go to Orrin and find out what he has to offer. Now I can't get methredhel to deliver the message from the gray fox. Has anyone else had this problem? I'm playing on the 360 and this is pre-patch btw. 20:48, 22 December 2007 (EST)soulboxin85

Not the Ultimate Heist: serious bug after the "Boots of Springheel Jak" quest

Same problem stated above by many people. I've completed the "Boots of Springheel Jak" quest, that is now shown as completed, and my journal updates the "Independent Thievery" quest saying that I have to fence 1000 gold pieces to receive the last quest. I already have fenced more than 5k pieces of gold (in the first two missions of the guild) and I've spent more than a month (in game time, of course, not in real time) waiting in the Imperial City. Nothing ever happens. "Independent Thievery" doesn't update further. My new fence, Fathis Ules, is in Chorrol and he won't speak to me. I tried the unofficial oblivion patch (the official one had no effect whatsoever on this issue) and it solved the problem, making Fathis available again for fencing, but selling more than 1k of stolen goods to him solved nothing: quests are still blocked. Amusei doesn't contact me and when I speak to him (I found him at the Waterfont in the imperial city) the topic regarding the next mission is not there. The Gray Fox is where I left him before. I tried to advance with the console, but when "Independent Thievery" updates Amusei is still not showing, no matter how much I wait or what I do in the meantime. I tried to acquire the quest "The Ultimate Heist" by console too, both before and after having updated "Independent Thievery" to its end, but when I do it the mission marker on the compass indicates stubbornly a point inside the Imperial Palace that is NOT the Glass of Time. When I found it and activated it, nothing happened. If the console's not working, what else will? Il Gobb 13:23, 07 January 2008

Similar Problem

I'm playing on a PS3. Gave the boots to the Gray Fox. The boots quest updated, but independent thievery did not. So I've never gotten the screen saying I need to fence 1,000 in gold, last one says 800. I've fenced more than 15k (I've been ahead the entire time and never had a problem). I fenced another 200 to Fathis. Didn't update. I went back to the Gray Fox, who is right where I left him. Didn't update. I found Amusei at the Waterfront. While he's happy to talk to me, he won't give me an assignment. Got arrested. Didn't update and no Amusei. I'm running out of ideas and I really don't want to go do the last one and half quests over (my fault for not saving, but still...). Any ideas would be much appreciated. Bluedevilblue 23:52, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

Strange Glitch

I explored the Temple of the Ancestor Moths before joining the guild. I thought I wouldn't be able to, or I wasn't supposed to be able to, but I just went right in, all the way through to the end and left through the well. Got a Mundane Ring off the guardian too. Thing is...leter on back in the Imperial City, Methredhel shows up and says "I've been meaning to talk to you". So I talk to her, and she gives me the "Turning a Blind Eye Quest" and tells me to go meet the Gray Fox in Bruma. So now I have this quest like normal in my journal, but I'm not even in the guild. So I guess doing it would mess up the guild quest line if it's not messed up already. Anybody seen this before? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 4. April 2007

Dumb Ahdarji is driving me crazy with her ring

Alright. I just need to say this to someone, so please excuse me for my ramblings. Stupid Countess Alessia Caro. She's a pig! She just sits down at her dumb dining tble and starts eating and never stops even when I waited for 72 hours! I solved this problem when I waited outside the castle for 2 hours on my second try. On my 1st I died because I forgot hat I was a level 4 vampire from waiting for her to stop eating. Then here comes the biggest problem. She won't take her stupid ring off at night! Maybe she's too fat from over-eating and it won't come off. I even shot her and her dumb husband with an arrow of cleansing because I was pissed off. I just wish she would die! Thanks for listening, I feel much better. Haha. :) — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 6. May 2007

same thing happeneing to me any answers? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 7. December 2007
I think it has to do with doing the sanguine daedric quest before this. Because I had the same problem but only on characters that had done the sanguine quest. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 1. January 2008

Items For Sale

So I go into random shops to case the joint before I rob them. I ask the caretaker what they have available and some of them have these kick-a$$ items for like 20K and more. Yet when I go in at night I can't find those items anywhere. Do these shops have hidden passages or rooms where they keep these items, or are they not available for me to swipe? Anyone know? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 2. June 2007

Almost all merchants have one or more merchant chests that contain most of their merchandise. In particular, any Unique Items for sale are always kept in merchant chests. Those chests are actually located in places like under the floor of the shop, i.e., in places that are completely inaccessible (except with Console commands like tcl). So there is no way to acess to the merchant chests and therefore no way to steal those items. --NepheleTalk 17:40, 2 June 2007 (EDT)

Thieves Guild quests without being a member

Something odd; I haven't joined the Thieves Guild, though I do have the 'Finding the thieves guild' quest in my unfinished quests section. Talking to Methredhel in the IC, she gave me the message "I have a message from the Gray Fox for you", thus beginning the Turning a Blind Eye quest. Has this, or something similiar, happened to anyone else? -Saruuk

It looks like it's happened to at least one other person (see Strange Glitch section above). I've not seen it myself though. What version (PC/PS3/Xbox) are you running and do you have any mods installed? That might have an effect. Rpeh 10:02, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

I cant complete the last thieves guild quest!

the fence wont talk to me and ive fenced over the required amount. i also did the sins of the fathers quest. how can i do it? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 8. July 2007

me neither! — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 27. April 2008
it wont let me either gray fox wont come and he is still on chadenhal if any one knows how to get around it please contact me at or on this xbox live gamer tag 'Richard Myatt' — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 24. May 2008
same problem here.. really annoying as i have completed almost every other quest in the game — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 26. June 2008
Wait 24 hrs. & see if the messanger contacts you if not, make sure you have enough, maybe sell to an older fence.-Puddle TalkContribs. 13:02, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
You don't need to talk to the fence to start the next quest. If you have the required amount of fenced stuff the messenger should start looking for you 21:08, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
Not sure you have the same problem then I but probably this will help: my problem was, cannot start the last quest in thief guild because the messenger do not contact me, (fenced more then the right amount, sleep, wait, did everythign) when I found him, he just say he got a message but nothing else so it was really annoying. I found out after many trials, need to go to console and type: setstage TG11heist 10, after this a message appear like you receive a message from amusei and you can start the quest! hope that will helps and hope my bad english not confusing anyone :) — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 31. August 2008

Update on Bugged Methredhel

I have stumbled upon the same problem as two other users who have reported it here: Methredhel gave her message of Turning a Blind Eye to me way before I was even fully in the guild. I have done some research, and have actually managed to become Gray Fox and complete the questline smoothly. I can confirm that it has to do with going to the temple of the Ancestor Moths too soon. A little report:

I am running PC version 1.15(and some more numbers after that, but hey) with only Mages Tower and Vile Lair- no other mods.

  • I went to see Armand Christophe, asking the beggars about the gray fox. I started the first quest (May the Best Thief Win) and got Amantius Allectius' diary. On the way back, I talked to Methredhel, and she gave her annoyed line ('you stole that diary from me!')
  • When returning to Christophe the next night to give him the diary, I first talked to Methredhel for fun. She then gave me the line 'I have a message for you' and told me to go to Bruma to start Turning a Blind Eye. From there, I spoke to the Gray Fox, got Savillas Stone and so on.
  • After returning the Stone to the Gray Fox, the quest was completed normally and Independent Thievery suddenly went up to the 700-fenced-gold perk (where it previously was just 50 gold, because I only did May the Best Thief Win previously).
  • From there, I managed to complete everything normally, and became Gray Fox.

After all this, I got one of my other characters who hadn't seen any blind priest or blind priest temple yet, and did May the Best Thief win again- this time, no message from the Gray Fox. Spoke to her on different times of the day, but still, no message. My conclusion: Methredhel's bug has something to do with going to the Temple of the Ancestor Moths too soon. (Hee hee, M'aiq thinks this is a nice thing to chew on for the TES-gifted people- Nephele, where is you?) M'aiqM'aiq thinks talk serves no purpose. 18:25, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

Sorry, I didn't realize that there was uncertainty about what triggered this glitch. The script on one of the doors in the Temple of the Ancestor Moths is clearly set so that when you activate the door to open it, the command SetStage TG08Blind 6 is executed. This means that no matter how you came to be there (whether or not you've started the Thieves Guild quests; whether or not you've started the quest Turning a Blind Eye), Turning a Blind Eye is automatically triggered and the quest is updated to that stage.
The door in question is the locked "Old Wooden Door" in The Temple of The Moth Halls (internally identified as TG08Catacombs2Door), which can be opened by picking the lock or by obtaining the Catacombs Key. I'm not sure what the developers overlooked that allowed this script to be triggered without starting the quest, but there doesn't seem to be anything in place to prevent a player at any point in time from walking up to that door and activating it. --NepheleTalk 21:56, 18 July 2007 (EDT)
By saying 'May the Best Thief Win' you mean 'Turning a Blind Eye' of course (:
Last question: Is there a fix available for this? Like setting the quest to an earlier stage (if that is possible)? M'aiqM'aiq thinks talk serves no purpose. 08:09, 19 July 2007 (EDT)
Nope, no fix available. It is not possible set a quest to an earlier stage nor is it possible to erase the fact that a stage has been done. (If you want gory details, I just added some to Console Command Tutorial.) More experiments while playing the game might be useful, though, to see what should or should not be done once you trigger this bug. From your experience, it's obviously possible to make it through the Thieves Guild even after getting the bug, but I'd guess it's also possible to make mistakes that really glitch the game. Just for clarification: did you ever do the early Thieves Guild quests? Or did you just do the last four quests?
And, yes, I did mean 'Turning a Blind Eye' ;) I fixed my mistakes to prevent other readers from getting completely confused! --NepheleTalk 22:23, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
Apologies for the late reply, M'aiq has just returned from a horrid vacation! To answer your question: I have completed the Thieves Guild questline using Methredhel's glitch both with and without doing earlier Thieves Guild quests. It doesn't make any difference. Also, it isn't really necessary to fix anything once you've done the damage: you can still easily complete the questline the 'normal' way as long as you don't speak to her when there's no need to. Pffft, off to bed, that 18-hour sit-in-the-car-and-hope-for-the-best marathon M'aiq just went through absolutely destroyed him x_x M'aiqM'aiq thinks talk serves no purpose. 16:52, 11 August 2007 (EDT)

Unverified Bug

Moved from article.

Another thing that may work is getting caught and paying a fine to the city guards. For some reason this seems to spawn the messenger next to you. (Requires verification from other players) — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 18. Augsut 2007

REPLY: I tried it and it worked. Please have my babies. I went in the Temple district, stole from a guard, got caught, paid the fine, and when I reappeared in the prison district after paying my fine, Amusei was right on top of me! I added this workaround to the front page, we could use some more input from other players experiencing this problem. I worked on this problem for 3+ hours and this workaround instantly solved this glitch. :) — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 29. August 2007
This didn't work for me. I've been waiting days for the messenger to find me for the last quest, I've fenced enough (although my quest doesn't seem to have updated), I've travelled all around, closed oblivion gates in the meantime and nothing. I did find Amusei and he said "I have a message from the Grey Fox", but then his dialogue was completely blank except for the X at the bottom to exit the conversation. I tried the above fix and he did not show up. 11:38, 17 November 2007 (EST)
REPLY:Worked like a charm for me. Thanks, wish I would have read this a few hours ago and saved myself a lot of trouble... — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 29. January 2008

Finding the thieves guild completion

I'm a bit puzzled - i have successfully found the gardem of Dareloth at midnight and have completed may the best thief win quest although the finding the thieves guild quest has simply disappeared from my current quests list but it hasn't come up in my completed quests either?! Is this supposed to happen as i'm sure finding the thieves guild is one of the 199 finishable tasks in the 100% completion part of this wiki site? — Unsigned comment by Fieldmouse79 (talkcontribs) on 9. September 2007

IGNORE ME IT DOES APPEAR IN THE COMPLETED SECTION JUST NOT AT THE TOP WHERE THEY USUALLY APPEAR! — Unsigned comment by Fieldmouse79 (talkcontribs) on 12. September 2007

Disappearing Armand?

(from the article)

In PS3 play, Armond Christophe completely disappeared before handing off to next doyen.

Doesn't seem likely to me. Has anybody else seen this, or can the original poster give us more info? --RpehTCE 14:00, 5 December 2007 (EST)

Same problem here...
i'm on xbox360 and Armand has completely vanished. During 'The Elven Maiden' quest i planted the bust into whoever's cupboard and Lex found it there but when i try to report to Armand...he's just not there. I tried to wait 'till midnight i don't know how many times now, he just doesn't show up. In my 'current quest' text it says, and i quote
'Hieronymus Lex found the bust i planted. Now all i have to do is report to Armand. Unfortunately I'll have to wait until the next midnight for him to return to the garden of of Dareloth.'
Every midnight i wait there he's just not there and the other members of the guild seem to just wander around everywhere....even the marker for the quest brings me to the usual meeting place...WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!!! please help — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 19. Febuary 2008
Problems related to specific quests are discussed on the quest pages, not on general guild pages such as this one. And in this case, there is already a fairly thorough description of this problem with possible fixes at Oblivion:The Elven Maiden#Bugs. --NepheleTalk 12:27, 19 February 2008 (EST)
yeh i had the same problem i completed the task went to the garden at midnight and he just wasnt there — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 6. April 2008

Stole Jak Boots Before Quest

I stole the Boots of Springheel Jak before all the Gray Fox quests and I am now on the Boots quest, but the Fox wont take the boots... can anyone help? — Unsigned comment by Demimatrix (talkcontribs) on 15. February 2008

Have you gone through the majority of the quest, eg. getting the diary? You might just not be on the correct quest update.
--Draenoch 09:51, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

After Completing TG Questline

In the IC Waterfront District it says that the Basement of Dareloth is only after you complete the questline for the Thieves Guild. I can't seem to find any information though. Is there anything special about this basement or is it just a nice bonus to be able to go to one more (probably small) area? — Unsigned comment by Korunox (talkcontribs) on 15. February 2008

It's actually quite large but no, there's nothing very special about it. You get a nice new bed you can sleep in but that's about it. –RpehTCE 02:29, 15 February 2008 (EST)
Okay thanks, I just figured that a basement isn't really a reward to go through the whole thieves guild for. Ofcourse, you also get the Cowl so that makes up for it.
To think that I am actually going through the whole questline because I overestimate the Bad Medicine quest, and really want that bonus. At least, almost every quest in the game is fun to do. - Korunox 06:47, 15 February 2008 (EST)

The Countess' Key - Stuck To Her Fingers?

I of course, on my latest character after completing the Dark Brotherhood questline decided to do the less appealing Thieves Guild, and I'm having difficulties!

It was all going smoothly until I had to do this one, really.

I've narrowed my problem down to the following:

  • I cased the castle before she went to sleep, broke into everything - including the jewlery box.
  • Got her assistant killed, while she was trying to protect me after I got caught by the guards later that night.
  • Got the countess beat up twice because I was caught.
  • Got the Skeleton Key before this quest.

— Unsigned comment by MadeMan21021 (talkcontribs) on 16. February 2008

I'm guessing you meant to post this on one of the quest pages? Because here on the general Thieves Guild page it's really not too clear what you mean by "this one." Perhaps Ahdarji's Heirloom? In general, it's much easier to provide feedback on a question if the responder doesn't have to start by guessing which quest it refers to. It's also easier to provide feedback if there's some indication of where in the quest you are and what the problem is that you're having. Or what you mean by "Countess' Key - Stuck To Her Fingers?" What key? How is it stuck? --NepheleTalk 03:17, 16 February 2008 (EST)
I hope I'm not breaking protocol here by not providing a solution, but what I can only think of is that the header means that the ring needed does not appear in the jewelry box when the poster checks it. Come to think of it, I might have a solution
Do you check the jewelry box before or after the countess gets ready for bed? because the ring (in my case) only appeared after she went to bed. — Unsigned comment by Korunox (talkcontribs) on 22. February 2008

This is my last resort

I play on xbox 360 and ive joined the thieves guild and its gone smooth and ive not really had any problems i was quite fond of steling and sold a lot to the fences early on and this hasnt really had an effect as far as i no until i got to the final quest the moment ive been working so hard to reach but instead of me having to fence 1000 my diary says ive only just fenced 800 and i must wait for a messenger despit the fact ive already done the boots of springheel jack it still say that i must wait for a messenger i have spoke to them both tried all the techniques but nothing

any help would be much appreciated

thanks B-) — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 22. February 2008

You already did the boots of Springheel Jak, does that mean that you did that quest already or just that you killed the vampire? I couldn't really make that out
If you already did the quest I am afraid I have no quick fix since you play on the Xbox. If you haven't done that quest I suppose it should update itself to say that you have fenced 1000 gold. If that doesn't work I am afraid you would have to reload a savegame and refrain from fencing 'too much' stolen items until you are told to fence that certain amount.
If anybody disagrees with me (since I'm no real expert) or has a better solution please speak up or correct me;) Hope it helps though ;) - Korunox 17:28, 21 February 2008 (EST)
thanks for the advice im afraid i just started again tho— Unsigned comment by (talk) on 22. February 2008

Disadvantage of Joining

This may be commonsense, but I noticed with several NPCs, that after I joined the theives guild, their disposition droped approximately 5 points with me. This should probably be noted somewhere, if someone can confirm it. --Scxe 13:06, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Quite a lot of people will dislike you for joining the Thieves Guild. Members of all the following factions will dislike you a little bit - a dislike that increases as you advance through the guild:
That essentially boils down to "guards" and "nobility". Feel free to add some more information on the phenomenon if you think the article needs it. –RpehTCE 14:06, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Quest Misdirection

I finished delivering the ring and found that the waterfront area was invaded again by Lex. I was told to talk to S'krivaa since I fenced 300 gold (I've fenced a rediculous amount, like 15 k though at this point; didn't think that I would run into trouble seeing as I patched with both official and unofficial and OOO's). My quest log says that I definitely finished the ring quest. When I go to S'krivaa, she has no dialog for me (both in her house and in the place where she eats), and when I go to the waterfront, I am told by all the thieves simply that the waterfront is under lockdown and they discontinue the conversation. Help!?

I have oblivion, shivering isles, knights of the nine btw all to latest patch. — Unsigned comment by 1mike12 (talkcontribs) on 2. March 2008

Nevermind, turns out i was supposed to just talk to a beggar to find out where methredel was. I actually was so pissed off that i began rampaging around imperial city killing everyon in sight, and those who i couldnt I just console killed, and just as I was smiting a beggar, I caught the dialog methredel, and I soon remembered from b4 that I had to go find her at her friends house. :( — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 2. March 2008

Just wondering

I was wondering that maybe you could include on the notes section, that you can steal the special gauntlets from the two arena hopefulls' chest in the arena district, and sell them to the first fence for over 400 gold. -Manurulz1548 18:24, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

I don't see why not.--Darth NANAME 18:27, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Valuable items in castle Bruma display cases

The only item I found in the display cases that was worth more than 100 gold was the messenger's diary. Maybe I'm not sharp enough, but besides the lifting the vale quest,can someone elaborate on the valuable items? --TheTamrielTerror 10:14, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

There are some display cases in the dining room (behind the throne room). There are some soul gems and potions there. The items added after the lifting the vale quest are also worth more than 100. Vesna 14:59, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

"Independent Thievery" Stuck at 600

- I am having problems similar to those posted in "Probem 2" above, and none of the workarounds are working for me. I tried getting arrested and paying the fine, stealing from shops, fencing countless items, looking for Amusei and Methedrel and talking to them myself, even getting kicked out of the guild and getting back in. I finished the "Turning a blind eye" quest, but the "Independent Thievery" never updated (still says I fenced over 600 and to wait for my first message from the Gray Fox). I have tried all of the workarounds and still nothing. And if it helps, when I did the "Turning a blind eye", the quest log updating saying I've found the monastery and need to ask around updated AFTER I already got the stone and was exiting the area. I gave him the stone, and the quest updated saying I should keep myself available for the next mission and that's where it stopped. Frusterating! TheColdOne 14:44, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Independent Theivery 50

I've fenced over 50 gold, but when I talk to Armond I can't find a way to turn the quest in. What is the speech line that finishes each of these quests? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 12. July 2008

Last Fence no buy

I have gotten to guild master or whatever. But the last fence you are suppose to be able to use, just won't buy. I start talking to him and he says: Are you in need of a fence? or something like that. But when I get the talk options the bartar option below is just not there. It didn't work as master thief as well. Has this happened to anyone else? 21:05, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Have you done the quest Sins of the Father?-Puddle TalkContribs. 21:29, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
No I have not, do I need to do it? 00:00, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
I had exactly the same problem, but I searched him on this wiki and learnt his schedule. If you've completed the thieves guild and gotten the HQ of the Thieves Guild, he hangs out there all night. I couldn't trade with him there. So I followed him about all day, and in the morning he ventures to Dul-gro-shug's house for a bit. I still couldn't trade with him. But then, after a while, he goes to the King And Queen Tavern for lunch, and it worked. Maybe he only trades with you in there after the thieves guild completion. And a reply to Sins Of The Father thing, I havent yet done this, but I know that once you do it it triggers a glitch leaving him unable to trade with you in Cheydinhal, where he stays. Chewjacka 13:19, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Problem (Fixable?): Messed up rank, Ultimate Heist Quest

hey guys, im stuck (wow, no way). its kinda complicated...

lets start off... back when i was just a padfoot (or whatever the rank is in the TG with "foot"), and i one day went out to explore.... well i found the Temple of the Ancestor Moths. bad idea, i know (didnt know then, though). and i explored it and everything. ok, so a long time later (in game time) im finally cat burglar (or some high rank), and ive got like 2 or 3 thieves guild quests goin on. i did all of them including the Arrow of Extracation, BUT, i didnt do Springheel Jack (because i didnt search Jakbel when i killed him- i know, i know, this is so stupid). so, at that time, i had Springheel jack, sins of the father, Taking care of lex, and one of those "fenced over so-and-so amount, go see S'krivva" (which, BTW, she wouldnt do anything due to the lex quest). so, i didnt know anything about how bad of a pickle i was, and i was stuck on all those quests. so i came here, did all of them, and in fact did The Ultimate Heist. (fortunately, i had a save file BEFORE i did Ultimate Heist). so, now were at the point where i have the "go visit gray fox for ultimate heist" and the "fenced over 100 gold, go see Skrivva". so, still having a backup file tonot doing UH yet, i did the quest. (good freakin hour and a hallf of wasted time). so at the end, i find out i have the well-known bug of not getting the mask. so i go back a little bit in the quest to a save file where i get out of the sewers, im outside, and so i go visit skrivva in hopes i get the master rank, because at this point, im only cat burglar, or shadow...somthing... anyway, im one step BELOW Master Thief. she doesnt say anything, so that worries me. so i had no idea but to delete the reccent files and just go back to the backup file to where i didnt to the UH quest yet. so that really ticked me off. so not, i am currently, (just a recap), the rank right below Master Theif, have the "go see skrivva, fenced over 100 g", and "go see GF to start UH quest", so can ANYONE help me, give me a tip, let me download some kind of fixing mod?anything? becuase heres what i CAN do: finish the UH quest (AGAIN) and pickpocket the Gray Fox Cowl from Stranger at anvil (remember, if i do the conversation, it bugs up), so if i do this, then i cant finish the quest, but i get the most important thing: the cowl, which, i would LOVEE to finish the quest, but if its impossible to fix, then so be it. i guess ill have to pickpocket the cowl and run off to never finish the quest.

oh, almost forgot, i have the Xbox 360 version. — Unsigned comment by FireLord (talkcontribs) on 30. July 2008

Thieves Guild Quest won't update

I've completed the Arrow of Ex. quest and now I'm stuck. The crux of the problem seems to be that my quest log won't update to show that I've fenced more then 800. Last entry says I've fenced over 700. Actually I've fenced over 4000K. I've waited around the Capt. City for like a week, even got arrested and respawned.. nothing. Does anybody know how to get out of this? PS3 by the way. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 1. August 2008

Independent thievery Quest ID

Does anyone know what the Quest ID for I.T. is? If yes, maybe it should be added to the Thieves Guild page. 13:30, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

This is a good point. Knowing what the Quest ID was (TGStolenGoods), I looked for it on the site, and it wasn't anywhere. I've added it to the main page for now, since this is where Independent Thievery redirects to, but perhaps Independent Thievery really should be on a page of its own, completely with Quest ID. I'm not sure it's the most appropriate method of doing so, but I've flagged this as a "Good Question" in the hopes of eliciting a second opinion. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 15:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
I keep changing my mind about this. Some days I think it should have a page of its own and some days I think it shoudn't. It would be useful to have a quest page for the journal entries but apart from that, there's not much to go on it. Quick walkthrough? "Steal stuff". Detailed walkthrough? "Yes - steal stuff". On balance I think not, but it's goot that you've added the id to the TG page. –RpehTCE 05:50, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
I've just sent an e-mail to "Robin Hood" with the Console data for this quest. Should I have just placed it here anyway? I sent it to Robin first, just to see if it was a good idea. But I forgot to make any notes first! So it will just be the raw data. It is from a Russian site, but is translated into English. Leo Star Dragon I. — Unsigned comment by Leo Star Dragon 1 (talkcontribs) on 26. September 2008

how do i get gray fox qests erly on

how do i get gray fox qests erly on — Unsigned comment by Gro bok (talkcontribs) on 22. August 2008

You can't you must progress through the thieves guild Crowbar 18:36, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Trouble with the Guild Quests

I'm playing Oblivion on the PS3 (for about the 4th time) and I've never had any trouble with bugs or anything (save for the Vampire Cure one). But I'm up to Savilla's Stone, I've fenced enough goods for The Arrow Of Extrication mission, but Amusei won't come to find me. I've waited in the Imperial City for 3 days straight and nothing. I read that a bug may occur if you complete the quest and then talk to beggars about it, but I haven't done that. I didn't talk to the beggars and completed the quest no problem. I've never had this happen before (and I did it the same as my previous saves). I was just wondering if the work-around that involves getting caught stealing and paying a fine in the Imperial City will work (were it spawns Amusei next to you at The Bastion/Prison.)?

Dravasavelas 11:07, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

This has worked in the past, so theres no harm in hitting a guard, paying the fine and seeing if Amusei is up there. (Chewjacka 13:18, 22 October 2008 (EDT))

Lazy Independent Thievery

Like the players on the Gripes page, I agree that being a Thief is a good way to get annoyed and about the worst possible way to make money. A "typical" house, or even the entire private area of a castle, will generally yield Zero Septims worth of loot. If you're lucky, you might walk away with 50GP, spread out across a ton of mundane clothing and a few pieces of silverware. When a "big" score is an Iron Cuirass, it's time to skip as much of this grind as possible.

Two quests will see you all the way to the Ultimate Heist, without taking any gratuitous risks or having to do "extra" work.

At the start of Order of the Virtuous Blood, you will have to break into Roland Jenseric's house... which is permanently devoid of NPCs, and contains several pieces of Alchemy equipment, Boar Meat (which sounds silly, but 4 pieces at 20GP each is more profitable than all the items in Skingrad's Lord's Quarters put together), and a cellar with a hefty stock of "quality" wine and potions. All of it can easily be carried, and sold in seconds with just a few clicks. I forgot to even Haggle with Ongar, so he was buying at around ?40%?, and still walked away with over 300GP fenced. And that's all you need (for now). You don't even need to continue to the next stage of the quest (though there's a Flawless Diamond as well if you do) if you don't want to (and you probably shouldn't now, unless you have a Reward Item Leveler Mod). That's enough money to get you through Armand's quests and onto S'krivva's.

(Optional, to pad your Fenced total in case you missed some key loot: S'krivva's first quest will net you 345GP in no-risk on-the-way placed items (more if you try, but the whole point of this is to NOT have to make extra effort or take extra risks, even just to cross a hallway to pick up a bottle of Cyrodilic Brandy), plus some random loot (which is leveled, so it can potentially remove the need for ANY further thievery if you're doing it late in the game).

Shortly afterwards you'll be required you to go through Castle Skingrad's Wine Cellar... which has more loot in it than the rest of the castle combined, all of it in nice lightweight stacks of bottles. And you have to be there anyway.

That's it. Even with a terrible Mercantile skill, you'll have enough stolen property to complete every stage of Independent Thievery, especially if you sell a few valuable NON-stolen items to Ongar as well to get his Disposition up. (Even at level 4, Magic Staffs etc are worth several hundred). Now you can just enjoy the real quests without wasting any time or energy on this "artificial" one.

Aliana 05:04, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

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