Oblivion talk:Varon Vamori

Training

Hey you edited my little addition, and you put a note that you could indeed recieve training from him, and i cannot, the only thing i can think of is that i have to do it in his house, and i know theres a 99.9 percent chance that that wouldnt fix it, so do you have any suggestions that i need to do, or is this a glitch or what? — Unsigned comment by 68.102.228.59 (talk)

(question moved here from User_talk:Nephele)

As it says on the article, he only offers training from 6am-8am and from 9pm-midnight every day. All trainers (in fact, all people who offer any type of services) only have specific times when they will offer training. But that doesn't mean it's a glitch: that's intentionally how the game was set up to work. --Nephele^Talk 23:48, 1 March 2008 (EST)

no no no no, i tried that, i waited in 3 hour increments for a day, so theres no way i missed his training session - The Sneakiest Kajiit 11:37, 2 March 2008 (EST)

He only trains when he's not doing anything else - and that includes walking home. You'll need to catch him in his house between the times mentioned on that article. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:04, 2 March 2008 (EST)

I accually got training from Alga(lower level speechcraft) and she was outside her house, but ill try it

As Rpeh stated, trainers only offer training services when not doing something else. Just because shes outside her house doesn't mean shes actually doing something, the conjuration master trainer is usually (if not always) at a Daedric shrine. Mikeyboy52 09:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

This is why I put the next section, Training, Walking, up here at the top of the page, so readers would not receive erroneous information. Rpeh's definition of training times is incomplete. They tend to offer services when not doing something else, but the real distinction is their schedule, as outline below. Anarchangel 10:30, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Training, Walking

He may train while he is on the way home. On the PC, he not only offered training, but the Master Training quest, on the way back from Silverhome. It was slightly after 9pm, which leads me to believe that the hour of the day may be the true limiting factor; the article says he is scheduled to be home at 9pm. When one condition is delayed, the true parameter prevails. Anarchangel 05:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The article says he is scheduled to head home at 9pm; however, it is misleading in the portion that says "He will only offer training when he spends time in his house." The summary box is correct in saying that he provides services from 6am-8am and from 9pm-12am. Feel free to reword it. --GK^talk2me 06:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I wrote it like that because, when the 9pm package kicks in, he will be "home" (as far as the AI is concerned), even though it may take him a little while to get there. Same goes for all other trainers with similar schedules and I think it would be a waste of space if we should provide explanations on each and every page. I have a feeling, that the majority of gamers will simply just wait until he arrives. --Krusty 08:32, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposed text: "He is scheduled to offer training between 9 PM and midnight; if he is encountered after 9pm, returning to his home late, he will still offer training."

To replace: "He will only offer training when he spends time in his house."

That's an additional 90 bytes or so, in an article of five thousand six hundred and seventy four bytes. Note also that the text of articles and talk pages takes up less than half as many kilobytes of storage as revisions to articles and talk pages. And that is in spite of the fact that the text of talk pages is archived but never as good policy revised. See Wikipedia's estimate of their total storage space.

Me, I did wait. Until 9pm, when he was supposed to show up. Then I started looking for him. I have no idea what the average gamer might do, but it seems fairly reasonable that they would be more likely to go save time by finding him if they knew it could be done, than if they did not know. Anarchangel 10:30, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Look, it's not really a matter of how much space it takes in bytes and bits. It's a matter of using up space on the page itself, stating something that should be totally obvious. The sentence says: "After that, he spends yet another four hours at the Silverhome, before heading home at 9pm, wandering around his house until he goes to bed at midnight." - which means that his training starts at 9pm even when he is at the Silverhome and starts going home. If you waited at his house until 9pm, then you misread it - for that I'm sorry - but it doesn't justify that we should change all of the trainer-pages and add useless explanations. Believe me, there are LOTS of pages that should be changed. The service box is there for a reason - and the explanation (in this case "He will only offer training when he spends time in his house.") more or less serves as an overview - not an exact, detailed explanation. --Krusty 10:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Please, do not revert or add anything else to the main page before consensus have been reached on this matter. I have stated my opinion, and you can't just "go ahead anyway" without even responding. --Krusty 14:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I wrote a big long answer, but as in the end it all just came down to, your reasoning was unconvincing. I thought I would spare you the criticism. If you insist, then fine.

Space on the page is not a concern until the "WARNING: This page is ## kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb" message comes up. • I have no problem with your reasoning while making the edit in the first place. I did not know that he offered training when he was walking, until I was in game and went looking for it, how should you or anyone else have known that? The problem is, you have not conceded that the last sentence turns out, in hindsight, to be in error. • If many pages need fixing, that may indeed be a reason not to fix them all, because it would take too much time, but it most surely is not a reason to spend time arguing that we should not fix one of them. You wrote a lot here, but none of it responded to the standing arguments. You were the one who brought up "space", for example, so having a big ol' debate about that is not responding to the point which GK made, and I have so far considered assumed, which is that the sentence, as originally written, is wrong. To not have said anything in response to that did and does not give me confidence in the neutrality of the discussion. • Since I had gotten something of a thumbs-up from GK to print, I did so. I am sorry if that seemed precipitous to you, but it actually saves space on the page here to do trial edits in mainspace. • It was Rpeh, in fact, who made an edit (a revert) without discussing it; I felt I had done quite a bit of that already.

I decided the sentence would be improved by being cut considerably, which made it hopefully less 'obvious': ""He is scheduled to offer training between 9 PM and midnight." • After I had edited, I looked to the right, to the infobox, and saw that he was also available at 6 to 8am. So much for concise; I could not just tack on '6 to 8am', and not be repeating the infobox. And without very sturdy rationale; it occurred to me that the whole purpose of the original sentence was kind of iffy in the first place, and I briefly contemplated cutting out the whole thing, but I decided that it could be saved. The variation in NPC schedules is the key to both explaining the phenomenon and saying something that the infobox does not already, I decided, and made up a new sentence on the spot. • Rpeh reverted me, without understanding the consequences of that action, namely that the article again had the fatal flaw of saying 9 to 12 without mentioning 6 to 8. • Could not leave it like that, so I reverted, and if you consider the language in Glengarry Glen Ross, that Al Pacino used to describe someone who similarly acted in a situation when they did not 'know the score', I think "unhelpful" was pretty restrained.

Anarchangel 17:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Wine

It says on his page that he has several bottles of Tamika/Surrille red wine how do we know it's red wine and not for example a white wine in a colored glass bottle ?--TheAlbinoOrc 22:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Although it is a very superfluous edit, I've removed the red from the sentence, so hopelly it's "better" now. --^MC• S'drassa ^•T2M 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mean there was any thing wrong with the article I was just curious, sorry if it sounded like I meant to imply someone needed to change it.--TheAlbinoOrc 00:36, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Of course not, it's just that my mind hasn't been functioning very well today (I need to get some sleep) but still it doesn't really affect the article at all, so don't fell bad about it. :) --S'drassa ^•T2M 00:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I won't feel bad about it then, now go get some sleep.--TheAlbinoOrc 00:50, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not the expert on wines (rpeh?) but I believe white wines are usually shipped in different bottles. So far I haven't seen anything other than red wine in such dark bottles (when you are speaking about wine itself). --Timenn-<talk> 15:47, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

True, but in that case do we really need it stated on the article when there's only red wine in the game  ? (Sorry if I sound antagonistic it's not intentional there's a lot of inflection lost in the text).--TheAlbinoOrc 21:43, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

there's quite a lot of dark bottles in china that aren't red wine. Mikeyboy52 08:47, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

House

Was his house checked in game or in CS ?--TheAlbinoOrc 00:59, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

The house contents haven't been checked yet, they were written by both Krusty and GK. I'm supossing that it was done in-game since Krusty plays on the PS3 and I think that GK plays on xbox. --S'drassa ^•T2M 01:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know, now seriously go get some sleep S'drassa .--TheAlbinoOrc 01:25, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Well it would be too early to go to sleep right now, since where I live it is only 7:30pm, but thanks :)--S'drassa ^•T2M 01:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Faction

Why is his faction shown as not written when it says he's a member of the Thieves Guild is this intentional ?--TheAlbinoOrc 14:38, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Nobody has updated the tag. There's more to it than just adding a line to the template though - the Faction section of the OBNPCRP tag is more about any changes that occur to an NPC's factions. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:00, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Random Death

Having recently completed "The Forlorn Watchman" I returned to Bravil to be greeted by the sight of Varon Vamori being ejected with some velocity from the front door of Silverhome on the Water. He falls onto the front steps like a drunk that has just been bounced. Unfortunatly, however, he is quite dead. If I reload it happens again. If I enter Bravil via fast travelling to Castle Bravil, and then walk to Silverhome he is still dead on the front steps. I'm not really concerned as I have completed the Mage's Guild quests and don't like bad poetry, but I thought it was a glitch worth mentioning. It's actually pretty funny, I backed up the game save... would go well on a "bloopers" page ~Grim — Unsigned comment by 220.236.72.41 (talk) at 19:30 on April 20, 2011

Not really mentionable, many characters get stuck in the ground and get shot up and die. Its just a random thing that happens in Obvlivion.--Catmaniac66 00:35, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Praying to Dibella?

I want to leave a message rather than changing it in case there is something stating this is correct anywhere. Is that statement correct that Vamori prays to DIBELLA in the Chapel of Mara? Sn0L3prd 18:16, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, he doesn't really pray to Dibella, he just receives an awful lot of blessings. I tweaked the article. --Krusty 18:53, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Disposition Dialogue

After the revamp, I was left with three lines of Ardaline-related dialogue, probably all used if you raise (or lower) Varon's disposition:

• Oh, her. I've seen her around town, but I don't really know her.
• Who? Oh, her.
• Can't help you. I don't really know her.

I added the 4th line, "Yes, I sort of know her. Well, I mean I don't really know her, but I've talked to her some.", but that one needs a correct disposition level as well. --Krusty 18:27, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Umm...is this a question? Anyway...

• Who? Oh, her. Can't help you. I don't really know her. - Disposition under 30. This is one response, but on two lines, or whatever they're called.
• Oh, her. I've seen her around town, but I don't really know her. - Disposition under 50.
• Yes, I sort of know her. Well, I mean I don't really know her, but I've talked to her some. - Disposition under 65.

Also, the line "I don't feel comfortable talking about her with you anymore." only checks for a Disposition under 65 and the player has already heard his lines about confessing and his Laying hands line, not just using the scrolls.

All checked in CS of course. --DKong27 ^{Tk Ctr Em} 19:08, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, DKong! I'll see if I can add all that tomorrow - OR alternatively, you can add it and check the rest of his dialogue? ;) --Krusty 23:40, 6 October 2011 (UTC)