Online talk:Potions

Tinctures?

I don't think any of those Tinctures show up in quests. Also, the Ashen Blood of Malacath's description doesn't even make sense. —Legoless (talk) 23:18, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

I know, and I have no idea what these are supposed to be. I just copied what I found in the database. I have seen the "Ashen Blood of Malacath" in one other place, as an ingredient in Old Orsinium Blood Soup, which may also not be in the game. Is it possible these are left over from beta or even pre-beta? Or possibly even something that will appear in a future patch? I'm not sure how this data was collected, but it's in there somehow. Anyhow, if we determine for sure that these items don't exist, we can remove them, though that leaves only ONE item still in the list with the Torchbug Treacle. I feel like we may still be missing some things, but this was all I found. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 04:07, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I made a point of keeping samples of Torchbug Treacle since it was the only quest-related potion I encountered in-game, so that sounds about right. Might be worth separating it out from the others, in the hopes that someone will be able to confirm the purpose of the Tinctures? —Legoless (talk) 05:03, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Availability

Are we certain that all of these exist? I seem to recall potions that were purchasable from stores being of fixed levels, and dropped potions of the same name always being of a lower level than bought ones. --Enodoc (talk) 19:39, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I thought potions used to drop based on the mob level? If so, they should all theoretically exist. Not sure how OT affected things. —Legoless (talk) 19:59, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

You're probably right, that would make the most sense. If they are all available, there's quite a bit of redundancy here, as the values are consistent throughout. Maybe one large table would work better than 8 small ones? --Enodoc (talk) 21:08, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Vertical Layout

I strongly disagree with this change. The previous layout allows the entire chart to be visible on the screen at once, while the new layout requires vertical scrolling. (It's also much harder to edit if they make balance adjustments later.) A possible alternative might be to split the 2 rows in my original charts into 3 - 66 divides evenly into 3 rows of 22, so that still works. Here's what that might look like:

Potion	Sip of Health						Tincture of Health					Serum of Health				Dram of Health					Effusion of Health
Level	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22
Health	262	1107								1952										2797
Duration	3.3	3.8	4.0	4.3	4.5	4.8	5.1	5.3	5.6	5.8	6.1	6.4	6.6	6.9	7.1	7.4	7.6	7.9	8.2	8.4	8.7	8.9
Potion	Effusion of Health			Potion of Health					Draught of Health					Solution of Health					Philter of Health
Level	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37	38	39	40	41	42	43	44
Health	2797							3642				3642						4487
Duration	9.2	9.5	9.7	10.0	10.2	10.5	10.7	11.0	11.3	11.5	11.8	12.0	12.3	12.5	12.8	13.1	13.3	13.6	13.8	14.1	14.4	14.6
Potion	Philter of Health	Elixir of Health					Elixir of Health			Panacea of Health						Distillate of Health					Essence of Health
Level	45	46	47	48	49	50	10	20	30	40	50	60	70	80	90	100	110	120	130	140	150	160
Health	4487					4494		5078		5163	5585	5670		5754		6261		6346		6430	6684
Duration	14.9	15.1	15.4	15.6	15.9	16.2	16.7	17.2	17.4	18.0	18.2	18.7	19.0	19.5	19.8	20.3	20.5	21.1	21.3	21.8	22.1	22.4

I'm not sure I like how that first column is wider due to the where the split is, but it's better than the absurdly long vertical tables we have now. We could simply remove "of Health" from the text, since it's already implied, e.g.:

Potion	Sip						Tincture					Serum				Dram					Effusion
Level	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22
Health	262	1107								1952										2797
Duration	3.3	3.8	4.0	4.3	4.5	4.8	5.1	5.3	5.6	5.8	6.1	6.4	6.6	6.9	7.1	7.4	7.6	7.9	8.2	8.4	8.7	8.9
Potion	Effusion			Potion					Draught					Solution					Philter
Level	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37	38	39	40	41	42	43	44
Health	2797							3642				3642						4487
Duration	9.2	9.5	9.7	10.0	10.2	10.5	10.7	11.0	11.3	11.5	11.8	12.0	12.3	12.5	12.8	13.1	13.3	13.6	13.8	14.1	14.4	14.6
Potion	Philter	Elixir					Elixir			Panacea						Distillate					Essence
Level	45	46	47	48	49	50	10	20	30	40	50	60	70	80	90	100	110	120	130	140	150	160
Health	4487					4494		5078		5163	5585	5670		5754		6261		6346		6430	6684
Duration	14.9	15.1	15.4	15.6	15.9	16.2	16.7	17.2	17.4	18.0	18.2	18.7	19.0	19.5	19.8	20.3	20.5	21.1	21.3	21.8	22.1	22.4

This also gives it consistency with the Poisons page, where I did that anyhow because the poison names are so long. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 21:15, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, that could work, but putting the it's-too-wide-for-the-page thing aside for a minute, vertical orientation is the standard across the wiki for long tables. These squished up horizontal tables don't look very nice, and they're not particularly easy to follow when you have to jump rows; you have to arbitrarily split a cell in the middle to start a new line (also, {{ThickLine}} is horrible). Given that the page contains quite a lot of duplicate/redundant information anyway, I think it would be better off with a single 66 x 9 table of values, or one table of values and another table or two with all the potions in. Then when ZOS inevitably changes everything, there's only one table to update, rather than 8. For example:

Potion		Level	Health	Magicka	Stamina	Standard Duration	Short Duration	Long Duration
	Sip	1	262	238	238	3.3	1.6	8.0
		2	1107	1005	1005	3.8	1.9	8.6
		3				4.0	2.0	8.9
		4				4.3	2.1	9.2
		5				4.5	2.3	9.6
		6				4.8	2.4	9.9
	Tincture	7				5.1	2.5	10.2
		8				5.3	2.7	10.5
		9				5.6	2.8	10.8
		10	1952	1772	1772	5.8	2.9	11.1
		11				6.1	3.0	11.5
	Serum	12				6.4	3.2	11.8
		13				6.6	3.3	12.1
		14				6.9	3.4	12.4
		15				7.1	3.5	12.7
	Dram	16				7.4	3.7	13.0
		17				7.6	3.8	13.4
		18				7.9	4.0	13.7
		19				8.2	4.1	14.0
		20	2797	2539	2539	8.4	4.2	14.3
	Effusion	21				8.7	4.3	14.6
		22				8.9	4.5	14.9
		23				9.2	4.6	15.3
		24				9.5	4.7	15.6
		25				9.7	4.9	15.9
	Potion	26				10.0	5.0	16.2
		27				10.2	5.1	16.5
		28				10.5	5.2	16.8
		29				10.7	5.4	17.2
		30	3642	3305	3305	11.0	5.5	17.5
	Draught	31				11.3	5.6	17.8
		32				11.5	5.8	18.1
		33				11.8	5.9	18.4
		34				12.0	6.0	18.7
		35				12.3	6.1	19.1
	Solution	36				12.5	6.3	19.4
		37				12.8	6.4	19.7
		38				13.1	6.5	20.0
		39				13.3	6.7	20.3
		40	4487	4072	4072	13.6	6.8	20.6
	Philter	41				13.8	6.9	21.0
		42				14.1	7.0	21.3
		43				14.4	7.2	21.6
		44				14.6	7.3	21.9
		45				14.9	7.4	22.2
	Elixir	46				15.1	7.6	22.6
		47				15.4	7.7	22.9
		48				15.6	7.8	23.2
		49				15.9	8.0	23.5
		50	4494	4532	4532	16.2	8.1	23.8
	Elixir	5010				16.7	8.3	24.5
		5020	5078	4609	4609	17.2	8.6	25.1
		5030				17.4	8.7	25.4
	Panacea	5040	5163	4686	4686	18.0	9.0	26.0
		5050	5585	5069	5069	18.2	9.1	26.4
		5060	5670	5146	5146	18.7	9.4	27.0
		5070				19.0	9.5	27.3
		5080	5754	5222	5222	19.5	9.8	27.9
		5090				19.8	9.9	28.3
	Distillate	50100	6261	5682	5682	20.3	10.1	28.9
		50110				20.5	10.3	29.3
		50120	6346	5759	5759	21.1	10.5	29.8
		50130				21.3	10.7	30.2
		50140	6430	5836	5836	21.8	10.9	30.8
	Essence	50150	6684	6066	6066	22.1	11.0	31.1
		50160				22.4	11.2	31.4

--Enodoc (talk) 22:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

And then the separate potions table would be something like this:

Potion		Level	Effects
	Sip of Health	1-6	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Tincture of Health	7-11	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Serum of Health	12-15	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Dram of Health	16-20	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Effusion of Health	21-25	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Potion of Health	26-30	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Draught of Health	31-35	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Solution of Health	36-40	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Philter of Health	41-45	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Elixir of Health	46-50	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Elixir of Health	5010-5030	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Panacea of Health	5040-5090	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Distillate of Health	50100-50140	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Essence of Health	50150-50160	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Sip of Magicka	1-6	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Tincture of Magicka	7-11	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Serum of Magicka	12-15	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Dram of Magicka	16-20	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Effusion of Magicka	21-25	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Potion of Magicka	26-30	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Draught of Magicka	31-35	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Solution of Magicka	36-40	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Philter of Magicka	41-45	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Elixir of Magicka	46-50	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Elixir of Magicka	5010-5030	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Panacea of Magicka	5040-5090	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Distillate of Magicka	50100-50140	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Essence of Magicka	50150-50160	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Sip of Stamina	1-6	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Tincture of Stamina	7-11	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Serum of Stamina	12-15	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Dram of Stamina	16-20	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Effusion of Stamina	21-25	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Potion of Stamina	26-30	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Draught of Stamina	31-35	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Solution of Stamina	36-40	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Philter of Stamina	41-45	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Elixir of Stamina	46-50	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Elixir of Stamina	5010-5030	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Panacea of Stamina	5040-5090	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Distillate of Stamina	50100-50140	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Essence of Stamina	50150-50160	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Roguish Escape Draught	1-50160	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. Grants Major Expedition which increases your movement speed by 30% for < Std. Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Roguish Stealth Draught	1-50160	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Std. Duration > seconds. Grants Vanish which makes you invisible for < Short Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Alliance Health Draught	1-50160	Restore < Health > immediately. Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for < Long Duration > seconds. Become immune to knockback and disabling effects for < Short Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Alliance Spell Draught	1-50160	Restore < Magicka > immediately. Grants you Major Intellect which increases your Magicka Regeneration by 20% for < Long Duration > seconds. Grants Major Sorcery which increases your Spell Damage by 20% for < Long Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)
	Alliance Battle Draught	1-50160	Restore < Stamina > immediately. Grants Major Endurance which increases your Stamina Regeneration by 20% for < Long Duration > seconds. Grants Major Brutality which increases your Weapon Damage by 20% for < Long Duration > seconds. (45 second cooldown)

--Enodoc (talk) 00:08, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

I could point to just as many pages on the site that use a horizontal layout, notably most of the ESO item pages. Your example is even worse than the current method, as it splits the data into two separate tables, forcing the user to scroll back and forth cross-referencing them to get any useful information. My original design allowed for a user to see all of the information about a given potion on one screen without having to scroll up and down. Splitting into 3 rows improved on that so that it can even fit on narrower browser widths. If your browser is any narrower than that, you shouldn't expect anything to look good. Are we trying to fit it on mobile devices? Many, many things are not going to work without horizontal scrolling in that case.

Also, the "50100" formatting is unnecessarily verbose. "100" gives you the same information without wasting space and is also much less confusing, especially in cases where you're giving a range like "5010-5030". That's much less readable than "10-30" or even simply "10-30" And what's wrong with ThickLine? It does a pretty good job of splitting up tables. But if you prefer:

Potion	Sip						Tincture					Serum				Dram					Effusion
Level	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22
Health	262	1107								1952										2797
Duration	3.3	3.8	4.0	4.3	4.5	4.8	5.1	5.3	5.6	5.8	6.1	6.4	6.6	6.9	7.1	7.4	7.6	7.9	8.2	8.4	8.7	8.9
Potion	Effusion			Potion					Draught					Solution					Philter
Level	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37	38	39	40	41	42	43	44
Health	2797							3642				3642						4487
Duration	9.2	9.5	9.7	10.0	10.2	10.5	10.7	11.0	11.3	11.5	11.8	12.0	12.3	12.5	12.8	13.1	13.3	13.6	13.8	14.1	14.4	14.6
Potion	Philter	Elixir					Elixir			Panacea						Distillate					Essence
Level	45	46	47	48	49	50	10	20	30	40	50	60	70	80	90	100	110	120	130	140	150	160
Health	4487					4494		5078		5163	5585	5670		5754		6261		6346		6430	6684
Duration	14.9	15.1	15.4	15.6	15.9	16.2	16.7	17.2	17.4	18.0	18.2	18.7	19.0	19.5	19.8	20.3	20.5	21.1	21.3	21.8	22.1	22.4

It's almost the same thing anyhow. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 01:15, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Aside from the table on Altmer Style, which has really bad syntax and no level entries, all those other pages have tables that are orientated vertically by item and level. I don't doubt that there are some horizontal tables somewhere, but those ones aren't. I can see the issue with scrolling between the tables, but I think the fact that you can see all the values in one table, and all the items in the other, is more useful, as you can compare everything at once rather than having to scroll between three different tables for X of Stamina, Alliance Battle Draught and Roguish Stealth Draught to find the differences. You just need to look in the item table, where they're only three rows apart, to see that the Battle Draught lasts longer than the generic and includes Major Brutality, while the Stealth Draught is the same length as the generic but also includes Vanish for a shorter time. If you're then interested in the exact values, you scroll over to the values table, but for many people, the differences will be enough. With the numbers spread out around 8 tables, it's harder to see where the similarities and differences are between them. You mention being able to see all the information about a given potion on one screen; I would say that's not as important as seeing how the potions are different to each other at a given level. If I'm Level 30, I don't care about the Level 40 version of the same potion, I care about the other potions at Level 30, because I want the best one for my level. The item database already covers different levels of the same item if that's the information you're after.

"Level 50 Champion 100" is how it's presented in-game, and "50 100" is the best way to shorten that. The fact that this is how it's displayed in-game is most important, but it also clarifies that you have to be Level 50 to use the potion. Someone who is Level 20 100 would not be able to use the potion, which is not clear if we just say 100. It also gives us less work to do if they decide to introduce "20 100" items in the future. ThickLine, particularly when there are numerous different sized cells around it, doesn't display very well, and you sometimes end up with extrusions from the vertical table lines crossing into it, making it look messy. Also, it's black, when the rest of the table lines are grey. If you're having a "thick line", it should be the same colour as the rest of the "lines" in the table, otherwise it looks out-of-place. In sortable tables, it always sticks to whatever row it's added to, making the table appear to be divided in places it shouldn't be. --Enodoc (talk) 11:25, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Point about ThickLine in sortable tables is completely irrelevant, as row-spanning dividers have the same problem and these tables can't be meaningfully sortable anyhow. Difference in color between ThickLine is also irrelevant - its entire purpose is to stand out from other lines, so having it a darker color is only natural. I've never seen the issue you mention with vertical table lines crossing it - this could be specific to your browser?

I still maintain that "50 100" is absolutely ugly to read and a horrible waste of space, especially in tables where space is already at a premium, and especially especially when used to portray a range. Anyone who has reached level 50 and started earning Champion Points should be relatively familiar with how the system works. A player who is Level 20 100 has by definition already done so with another character, so they're not going to be confused by the convention. We could even provide links to the Champion page for clarification, but it's very much unnecessary.

Finally, I still think that having miles-long pages forced by vertical charts is just completely unwieldy, especially when you're making users cross reference two separate charts for information. The Database is an absolutely unacceptable alternative to this, as the average user is a.) probably not even aware of its existence, and b.) cannot be expected to understand how to use it properly without help. It is very much not user-friendly, nor was it designed to be, nor should it be. Its purpose is to collect the data so that editors with the know-how have a reference from which to create user-friendly pages on the wiki. Telling visitors they should use the Database for reference is like telling players of Skyrim or the other games just to look it up in the Creation Kit/Construction Set. The entire point of this site is to provide information in a manner which is easy to use for people without the technical knowledge needed to weed out the data by hand.

A cross-comparison between potions of similar type could maybe be arranged by placing potions of similar type next to eachother. Instead of sectioning the page by dropped, purchased, crown store, etc. potions, we could section it by Health, Magicka, and Stamina, and possibly an Other section for those potions that fall outside these three categories. It's not how other such pages are designed, but maybe we could have two pages - Potions and Potions by Effect, similar to how we've split the Spells in Morrowind for example. It's really the only way I can see being able to get both benefits - a straight-up reference page based on means of acquisition as well as a cross-reference page for comparing effects. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 18:25, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

(←) I actually like the vertical list format with the item links (the second one from the bottom). This pages seems to be just listing all the dropped potions, and thus I feel a layout similar to how we present the Contraband items (aka a list) would be better for the readers. Using item links also means that if ZOS changes the items the new stats will automatically be reflected in the mouse over, making it easier for changes to be made to the text. Contraptions (talk) 16:38, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Contraption and Enodoc, that the second from bottom format seems easier to view. It's consistent with other ESO pages on UESP, and doesn't feel as closely cluttered with numbers as TheRealLurlock's table is. As long as the aesthetic is still appealing, and all necessary information is included, then the page should be fine. :) KriHavok (talk) 17:31, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Preference seems to be towards the item links vertical table, but I'd ideally like some more opinions first. --Enodoc (talk) 18:15, 15 February 2017 (UTC)