Shivering talk:The Helpless Army

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I think there is bug in this quest. I've freed the dark seducers captain and everything was fine, but when I'm trying to use the next chime, to go toward the Wellspring, nothing happens and I'm stuck there. I've reloaded the game several times, tried ringing the chime from different angels, but nothing happens. Am I doing something wrong?

As explained in the detailed walkthrough, there are four (4) chimes around the perimeter of the room... just run around the room hitting each until the Wellspring is activated. --GuildKnight (Talk) contribs 18:08, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

I was talking about the first chime in Hall of Devotion. The problem was that when I've freed Dylora, I went back to Crucible to sell some stuff. When I've returned in Pinacle Rock there were only three Dark Seducers with me - Dylora was missing. When you are in the Hall of Devotion, you can't use the chime before she tells you that Wellspring has been stopped. But when she is missing nothing happens to the Dark Seducers and the chime is unusable. :)

Well, that's a horse of a different color! ;) If Dylora is missing and unable to trigger the quest progress, you're probably stuck. On PC, you could probably find a console command to progress the quest, but on 360 I can't think of anything. --GuildKnight (Talk) contribs 20:29, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

SOLUTION in case someone sees this. Console:

prid 00017D07

MoveTo Player

(close console) This summons Dylora to you, which triggers continuing the quest as needed. -- Anon Dec 2014

"That faction"[edit]

"She also gives you the armour that belongs to that faction." This line from the end of the article is unhelpful in its un-specificness. Can we reword this? Somercy 12:03, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

There is a bug when you try to speak with the commander. Golden Saints Commander does not tell you where to go and does not give the key to Brellach. Is there Console code?

"That faction" means the Golden Saints or Dark Seducers. And in this case; the ones you didn't help at Cylone. "Armor" in this case is a helm and a raiment (like the Arena Battle Raiment) which covers your entire body except your head. Golden Saints Armor is Heavy and Dark Seducers; Light. The Shield is obviously missing but you can just pick them up from the ground. (Both the Saints and Seducers drop them.) Note: At level 25+, the Golden Saints Armor will likely to encumber you; and Perfect Madness Armor is superior to it in every way. Same goes for the Dark Seducer Armor but since it's light, you can keep it as a suvenior. None are enchanted but other than the helm, enchanting the armor/raiment is rather pointless as it covers your entire body. At level 25+ I'm sure you'd have Sigil Stone enchanted armor/clothing+wrist iron you'd much rather wear.

Getting both armors? (360!)[edit]

So, is there a way i can have both faction's armors? and if so, how? i dont have SI yet, and have been playing on my cousin's 360 (he HAS live and enough livepoints...Lucky N'wah...and i miss my mage breton...)

Nope, you can have only one set of armor from one side (i.e. Dark Seducers or Golden saints.). Note though, you can always loot their shield.--LordDagon 11:57, 26 January 2008 (EST)
It is now possible to get both armors on the Xbox 360; I have done it myself. You'll need a USB flash drive with more than 1GB of space, and a computer with an internet connection. Then follow these steps:
1. Format the flash drive for 360 storage (instructions for this can be found elsewhere).
2. Load a game or begin anew (with Shivering Isles installed).
3. Find some items to swap for the dark seducer and/or golden saint armours. Check for item IDs. (TIP: avoid items with more than one ID to prevent later misidentification.)
4. Save your game to the flash drive and turn off the 360.
5. Insert the flash drive into your computer.
6. Download and install Modio from
7. Run Modio and open your Oblivion saved game from the flash drive.
8. Select the "File Contents" tab, and you should see a file called "gamedata.dat".
9. Right-click and extract somewhere on your computer (the desktop works fine) and leave Modio open for later.
10. Download and install HxD from
11. Run HxD and open the "gamedata.dat" file that you just extracted in step 9.
12. Click the "Search" menu and open the "Find" window.
13. Set the "datatype" field to "Hex-values"
14. Choose an item you want to swap for the armour and enter its ID, BACK-TO-FRONT, into the "Search For:" field. (TIP: Each number is represented by two characters, so "000176G8" is actually four numbers "00", "01", "76", and "G8". Written backwards this ID is not "8G671000", but rather "G8760100".)
15. Replace the highlighted ID with the ID for any item of Golden Saint or Dark Seducer armour (EDIT: also input back-to-front). Return to the previous step and repeat for each piece of armour.
16. Save your changes and close HxD.
17. Return to Modio and the "File Contents" tab. Right-click and select "Inject File into Current Folder" and find your edited version of "gamedata.dat". When asked if you would like to overwrite the existing file, click "yes".
18. Click on the "General File Info" tab and press the "Rehash and Resign" button.
19. Choose the "Save to Device" option to save the changes to your flash drive.
20. Close Modio and remove your flash drive (safely!).
The save game can now be run from your flash drive or moved back onto the 360's harddrive. The items you selected in step 3 should have been exchanged for the dark seducer and/or golden saint armors. If this procedure has not been successful, then it is because the wrong ID was changed. Reload your backup (you did make a backup, right?) and search for another instance of the item ID and change that instead. Eventually you should get the right results.

Map icon error?[edit]

This is probably just a developer mistake, but why is Brellach, a fort, not a peak on the map when Pinnacle rock is? Or the other way round, as they are both forts...--Merco 15:53, 16 August 2007 (EDT)

Pinnacle ROCK could be an explanation. Otherwise you'd have to ask an developer.--LordDagon 11:57, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Confused About Sides[edit]

I'm working my way through the SI campaign for the first time, and I am just about to become the Duke of Dementia - i.e. the one with the Dark Seducers. There's a quest before this one where you lead your respective forces in battle, but why for this quest does it seem as though you switch sides? Why is the Duke of Dementia helping the Golden Saints?

Because the Duke of Mania is attacking them. The plot has Thadon becoming annoyed when you take over Syl's mantle and storming out to become a priest of order instead. The Saints at Brellach don't know this, however, so he takes them by surprise. You just happen to be a handily-placed hero with the skill to help out. The saint at the door to Brellach points out just how unusual the situation is, after all. NB - this applies in reverse if you become ruler of Mania instead. --RpehTalk 10:34, 27 September 2007 (EDT)

Interesting - thanks for explaining that - looking forward to it now. Though I have to say it seems rather illogical for the game to give you the greater powers for summoning both DS and GS, but powered the wrong way around. So you get the 120 second GP to summond the GS when you're Duke/Duchess of Dementia, and only the 60 second one for the DS. Seems wrong to me, but hey ho...

Dylora's Longsword?[edit]

The notes section tells me that Dylora will be carrying the highest quality Dark Seducer longsword. When I played through this mission, Dylora had a mace equipped, not a long sword. Not only that, but when I attempt to pickpocket her, I find that her inventory is totally devoid of any items at all, including longswords.

I'm playing on the 360, so there's no chance that any mods are changing her weapon.

Is this tip just totally wrong, or is it sometimes possible to get a Longsword from Dylora? If no one posts anything to confirm that Dylora sometimes carries a longsword, it would probably be best to change the article. Even if she does sometimes carry a longsword, the article states it as if it's a certainty, and it's definitely not.

First, the reason her inventory is empty is that equipped items don't show up. That's the easy part. Second, you're right about the weapon. Dylora carries a leveled weapon that can be a shortsword, longsword, waraxe or mace; I'm guessing you did the quest at level 16 or above as that's when she gets her mace. Staada, however, will carry a longsword after level 16 instead. I'm going to put some more detail on the page. Thanks for spotting this! --RpehTCE 04:01, 25 October 2007 (EDT)
Ah, thanks for that. Rather disappointing, though. I'd been counting on this to get a Dark Seducer sword, and now I'm out of luck, because I certainly don't want to replay from before Retaking the Fringe. Oh well. Anyhow, thank you (I'm the same person who originally asked the question, by the way). --Honeybunch 08:17, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

Male Warriors[edit]

During my latest run through the quest (helping the Golden Saints at Brellach), one of the Saints who initially joined my party was killed by a Knight of Order. Just before we moved into the second area of Brellach, the party encountered a male Saint fighting a Knight, Once we defeated that Knight, the male spoke to my character and asked if he could join the party.

First things first, I never saw this event in any previous run. Presumably this is scripted so you have replacements for whatever casualties you suffered early on in the quest. This, I understand, and yet this isn't what I'm here to write about. The weird thing about this is the fact that, after completing the quest and liberating Brellach, this same male Saint is following my character around everywhere. And I mean everywhere.

The male Golden Saint showed up after I did some Fast-Travelling from the Imperial City to Cheydinhal. Now, he's following my character all over Cyrodiil. He follows, he fights my enemies, and "...HAVE NO GREETING"— as you'd might expect. If the event can be reliably duplicated by other players, this probably qualifies as a quest bug, albeit a rather convenient one. —Dark Spark 03:44, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Could be handy, indeed. Are you playing on the PC? Maybe some thrid- party mod is the cause. And.. em... is he essential/respawning?--LordDagon 11:06, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
I'm playing the game on an Xbox 360, so there's no mods interfering with the game. The Golden Saint is not essential (though he's tougher than most underlings and can heal himself) and does not respawn when killed (lost him during the run for Sancre Tor, and he does not come back to life).
I should also note that his Responsibility is very high: any crime he witnesses you commit in Cyrodiil results in an immediate bounty (the normal bounty, not the Shivering Isles one) without him having to first find a guard to report the crime. He won't arrest you himself, but since he is a guard of sorts, you have this watchful eye following around to keep you honest. --Dark Spark 16:48, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
I have the same problem, 2 golden saint males are now following me. I'm playing the PC version w/o mods. Now I can't pickpocket since I cant ask them to stay on a place. -- unregistered

I was able to repeat the incident with a new character (Golden Saints, again), which suggest this a consistent glitch rather than some random occurrence the first time around. The process is relatively simple: I shirked combat until one of the redshirt Saints ended up being killed in the first zone. The male soldier showed up at the end of the first zone. I accepted his offer for help and ensured that he survived the rest of the quest. After the Wellspring was liberated, this same male soldier began following me around. I Fast Traveled to Cyrodiil, and the Golden Boy is now following me around downtown Cheydinhal again.

Question now, does the same glitch occur while trying to repeat these steps with the Dark Seducers at Pinnacle Rock? I'd feel that would need to be answered before going further—Dark Spark 03:49, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

I'll try and see if that happens since i'm about to get to this quest in my newest file. i'm on 360 with the GoTY only. Anyway i wouldn't mind a few extra swords (well i guess since i'm lv24 it would be maces) joining me for some of the fights! I'll let you know if it happens. Lord Eydvar 20:56, 17 December 2008 (EST)
Well i tried it and no male DS started following me. Actually i couldn't even find them after i talked to Dylora. Lord Eydvar 10:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Wellspring Problem.[edit]

I've activated all the chimes, but the crystals around the wellspring won't shatter. Is this glitch or have I forgotten something? -Dan 9410 17:27, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Nevermind, it just worked. Either reloading the game fixed it, or I didn't hit them in quick enough succession. -Dan 9410 03:54, 2 March 2008 (EST)
You do have to hit all four within a certain amount of time, and if you dally that is usually resolved by hitting the first chime a second time so you end up with all four resonating.—Dark Spark 02:58, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Heavy or Light Armor?[edit]

Can somebody confirm that the armor you get as a reward is either Light or Heavy depending on your character's skill, such as is the case with the Crusader Relics? I know that I received light armor versions, but the part of the wiki that talks about the Mazken and Aureals describes them as wearing Heavy Armor. — Unsigned comment by Nixlplix (talkcontribs)

The Dark Seducers wear light armor, and the Golden Saints wear heavy armor. The stats are listed here and here. You will get the armor of whichever side you assist, irrespective of your armor skills. --Gaebrial 03:31, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Wellspring causing system failure[edit]

Once I've activated all the chimes, any attempt at saving crashes the game. I figured it was just too many people in 1 room, but I turned off all autosave mechanisms, finished the battle, and went all the way to New Sheoth before saving and it still crashed. I guess I can use the console to complete the quest/get any rewards, but does anyone know why this keeps happening? 20:01, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

sneaking by in last room and getting wellspring unlocked?[edit]

is it at all possible to, after the seducers or saints petrify, to just run from the door to the resonators and still have it work regular. havent tried anything yet but am a vamp with all abilities and lvl 15 assassin. only have one arrow and that my best weapon... also tried to sneak by with ring of lordship on and got caught. any help is appriciated :) 18:27, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

sorry but your trapped. if you don't have any melee weapons, you'll have to rely on spells. if you somehow lost flare and any other damaging spells you have, just sneak by with chameleon or invisibility. if you don't have any...your out of luck. you'll have to go in with your fists.

A bug?[edit]

I just got to pinnacle rock, and talked to Adeo. After thoroughly explaining to me the situation, we got ready to head inside. Being the persuasive type I am, I decided to talk to the dark seducer warriors before fighting. They just looked at me with a scowl while the bottom says "I follow Adeo, your Grace. If she follows you, then so do I." They both have the exact same response (or lack there of) and it is repeatable until I entered the fort. Has anyone else gotten this? Justeazy 18:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

That's the expected response at that stage of the quest. Are you saying that they didn't actually speak and you only got the text? If so, that's just a bug with your game, they speak normally for me. Robin HoodTalk 06:09, 30 April 2010 (UTC)


is it possible to get dark seducer armor as duke/duchess of dementia? or golden saint armor if your duke/duchess of mania? both make since (i.e the saints wouldn't be able to give you seducer armor) but i bet a lot of people were let down when they got the armor of the bliss guards instead of that of the crucible guards. when i learned you can get light seducer armor i went through with a female rouge, only to find i got the heavy saints armor. btw, never wear the armor as a male...

I'd personally like to know if it is possible to get you respected houses armour whilst not on PC, but other then console commands I doubt its possible, which is unfortunate as DS armour is far better aesthetically and as a assassin, more useful as its light. JamesDC99 15:38, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

"I am your testing machine"[edit]

I remember that there was once a strange bug when one of Dark Seducers (if I recall correctly) that was petrificated during the ordering the Wellspring, after reviving has a name "I am your testing machine" or something like that. Do you know any rumors about this bug? - ZuTheSkunk 09:37, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't see anything like that off-hand, but without the exact wording used, it can be very difficult to find. It doesn't help that there are probably 50 or more variations of "Dark Seducer" in the construction set. Robin Hoodtalk 16:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Moved from article - needs checking[edit]

These two Notes were just added to the article:

  • Despite Staada saying that the Wellspring being stopped up annihilates the Mazkhen, leaving the fortress after the Wellspring is stopped up reveals that all the Dark Seducers in Crucible, the Palace, and patrolling Dementia are still alive and unfrozen.
  • If Adeo runs out of the fortress while chasing a Knight or Priest, and does not return to you by the time the Wellspring is stopped up, she may suddenly appear to you a bit later and tag along as a non-essential follower. If killed, Adeo's body will act like the frozen Dark Seducers, with her inventory inaccessable. At the end of the quest, she will either be resurrected like the other Mazken if she died, or will simply stop following you if she lived. This little bug doesn't seem to have too large an effect on the quest.

The Note about Staada seems like a standard "we-don't-need-to-mention-that"-note. It is pretty obvious that all nobody outside the dungeon will be affected by the Wellspring being shut down - the Note also confuses Staada and the Dark Seducers. For the Adeo note, I'm 99% positive that she will never "chase" anybody out of the fortress. I have never even seen a Knight or Priest of Order flee. So for now, the Notes are here. Opinions? --Krusty 22:47, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Find the Wellspring and Destroy the Crystals[edit]

I am playing on the 360...
My Active Quest is "Something has happened to the Wellspring of the Mazken..."
I figured I was at the point where I should follow...

  • Find the Wellspring and Destroy the Crystals:
    ... tall Order Crystals have entombed the center of the Wellspring. Eliminate the Knights and Priests and ring each of the Chimes in the four corners of the Chamber. The Order Crystal blocking the Wellspring should shatter.

but I don't seem to be in a location with Chimes in the corners. Perhaps I haven't made it that far.
All I know is that there are 3 doors that have to be opened from another location and I can't get to the bridge that leads across the middle of the area I am in.
I have a green marker so I know I am close to the goal.
Any help would be appreciated. DiamondKnight19 19:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Bring Golden Saint army to Cyrodiil[edit]

While the glitch that causes male Golden Saints to follow you to Cyrodiil has already been listed, it is possible to bring almost the entire army of Golden Saints there, as well. You might notice that in the small amount of time between the Golden Saints' revival, and Staada's congratulations, most of the Golden Saints will be following you around the room. This group will not only follow you around the Font of Rebirth, but everywhere. Just make sure you leave Brellach without talking to Staada as she walks towards you, then fast travel to the Gates of Madness, fast travel across the Fringe to the Door to Cyrodiil, enter it, and fast-travel to one of the cities.

If done properly, Issmi and at least four other Golden Saint Warriors will be with you. If two of them were male replacements, they will retain their follower dialogue, but will stop following you if you were to actually talk to them. Issmi will also retain her greeting, but not her conversation topics. If you commit a crime in one of the cities, and allow yourself to be arrested, Staada will join you at the Castle. If you want to find a proper place to put your Golden Saints, just let her follow you to that location without letting her talk to you, because once she talks to you (she retains her congratulations dialogue), the Golden Saints will stop following you and wander around the area.

If you have done the process properly, you will have permanently imported six Golden Saints, potentially including two extremely rare males, into Cyrodiil, where they can live among the Tamrielic races as unofficial citizens of whatever city or settlement you wish.

Perhaps I should also list this on the Shivering Isles glitches page, as well? Bauglir100 11:29, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Skull of Corruption Glitch?[edit]

In the final place where you reactivate the Wellspring I used the skull of corruption on all of the Dead Dark Seducers and they came alive with Dark ashortswords when I was level 17. But when I reactivity the Wellspring they came alive and they where called "Xmael's (My Character) Dark Seducers". Thought it was a pretty neat bug or glitch. And you couldn't talk to them — Unsigned comment by Nubaru (talkcontribs) at 15:15 on 1 October 2012‎

The Skull of Corruption only duplicates NPCs - it doesn't reanimate them. According to its page, it cannot be used on Golden Saints or Dark Seducers. Could you possibly be thinking of The Staff of Worms? Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 08:49, 4 October 2012 (GMT)

Rebuilding the Gatekeeper[edit]

I am playing the PC version of Oblivion GOTY. I finish rebuilding the Gatekeeper and when I report back to Sheogorath he congratulates me and the "finished quest" pops up. Then the messenger arrives to report the problem with the army and after Sheogorath makes a statement the controls to my character freeze. I cannot move or access my inventory, the characters just display idle animations as if waiting for something to happen. The only controls that work are my mouse (I can turn my character) and my Escape Key (to save, load or exit). I have tried reloading previous saved games, replaying "Rebuilding the Gatekeeper" quest, but as soon as I report to Sheogorath and the messenger arrives, the controls freeze. If I use the console "setstage" command to finish the quest before I report back to Sheogorath, my character controls freeze. I tried using the "Setstage" console command to advance to "the Helpless Army" quest but no matter how far I advance this quest, my character is still frozen. I cannot advance the main quest. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 12:16 on 5 November 2014

Try typing enableplayercontrols into the console. ~ Ad intellige (talk) 17:21, 5 November 2014 (GMT)