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Skyrim talk:Armor/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Armor discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Missing Armor

I'm sure I have seen somewhere on UESP that there is 'Dragon Armor'. Does this mean that it should be added to the table? And if it should be added, does that mean were missing a Light Armor type? And i have read, i think on another site, that there is 'Bone Armor' would/could this be the Light Armor correspondent to Dragon Armor? --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 15:22, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I may be wrong but Dragon armor can, apparently be forged in both light and heavy variants Andil the mage 15:26, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
It's mentioned at Skyrim:Smithing under perks. However, it doesn't bother telling us if it's heavy or light armor. There might be varieties for both light and heavy armor I guess, but that's besides the point. I'll add it as "Unknown". --AKB Talk Cont Mail 15:27, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Presumably like the Imperial Dragon Armor of Oblivion comes in Light and Heavy variants? I can't see it looking like that, but with the variations it could be a quality of 'dragon'? -- Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 15:31, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
To my knowledge, Dragon armor can be forged in both Light and Heavy variants. On another note, the perks for Smithing give the impression that Ebony Armor is more valuable and that it offers more protection than Deadric Armor. Talk Wolok gro-Barok Contributions 15:58, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
I think it unlikely that after this many game Daedric and Ebony suddenly switch around? --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 16:12, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
That's my stance too, I guess we'll find out in about a month or so... Talk Wolok gro-Barok Contributions 16:33, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Dragon armour is made from harvested dragons. You can forge it from a blacksmith in either heavy or light armour. Yes, bone armour also is in the game.RIM 19:48, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Chainmail and Mithril

I've removed Chainmail and Mithril from the light armor list. As the original author mentioned, it was mere guesswork. The in-game description for Skyrim:Light Armor makes no mention of Chainmail or Mithril, while the in-game description for Skyrim:Heavy Armor mentions all six listed heavy armor types. Now I realise that my argument isn't the strongest ever, but I feel it is better if those two are omitted until they are verified. Remember that armor wasn't equally distributed in Morrowind, and that it might be the case for Skyrim too. Wolok gro-Barok 21:24, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Yep, makes sense. At the time I added the light armor types to this page, we did not yet have the in-game description for Light Armor. Now that we have the description, it makes sense to update the Armor page to be consistent with it. --NepheleTalk 23:54, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Armour values

Should values, such as the ones that were added for hide armour, be in the article? Just wondering because if so, I can add elven armour to the list.RIM 22:15, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, it's a waste of time. I'll be auto-generating a complete list of every piece of unenchanted armor once the game comes out, at which point I'll just erase anything else that's on the page. Furthermore, any armor ratings you add to this page are nearly guaranteed to be wrong -- they'll be armor ratings based on one specific player's skills/perks, rather than base armor ratings, which is what belongs on the article.
On the other hand, I don't know that it's worth deleting what's been added there so far. I was inclined to just leave it there until there's something better to replace it. --NepheleTalk 22:26, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
I was thinking the same thing, I just saw the stats for the hide armour and thought that maybe we were supposed to add other armour stats as well.RIM 22:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Ancient Shrouded Armor

Need Armor ID for the Ancient Shrouded Armor set. — Unsigned comment by 65.87.228.104 (talk) on 20 November 2011

It's enchanted armor, and therefore doesn't belong on this page. See Ancient Shrouded Armor. --NepheleTalk 22:50, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
There are plenty of enchanted armors already in the list, such as the Thieves' Guild armors and Nightingale armors. If it's a unique piece of armor with its own armor rating (which Shrouded/Ancient Shrouded is) and not just basic armor with an enchantment, it should be in there, regardless of whether it comes with enchantments. --69.31.101.127 01:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Armor impact on spell effectiveness

In the notes section, it states spells are affected by wearing armor. I can't find any evidence of this in Skyrim; anyone know if this is still the case or if this mechanic no longer exists?

It doesn't, I don't know why someone put it there.
Cast lightning bolt at a summoned fire atronach while wearing no armor and steel armor. No difference in damage done. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/85/armorcast.jpg/ Cast oakflesh while wearing steel armor. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/armorcast2.jpg/

What's the advantage of light armor over heavy armor then? --Evil4Zerggin 14:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Lower Sneak penalty. Mind you, it's still beter to wear Robes (not light armor, just robes), as they tend to have huge bonuses to Magicka regeneration and the like.
Running speed. This is negated by perks, which also differentiate them further- heavy armor offers reduced falling damage and a chance to reflect melee attacks, while light offers stamina regeneration and chance to avoid blows.
Robes with high magicka regen and spell cost reduction effects are much more readily available then those effects on any other kind of armor, however you are fully capable of enchanting any class of armor with those effects yourself. Some effects on default robes and armors may still be higher than your maximum enchant though.
The noise armor makes while sneaking isn't affected by the armor perks that reduce carry weight down to zero. Furthermore, the effectiveness of the muffle spell is determined by weight, therefore Light Armor is advantageous for sneaking characters, regardless of armor perks or enchantments someone puts on the armor, especially since total armor weight is calculated for sneaking in Skyrim, not just boots.

Confusion Forseen

So, when someone tries to put a note in a location or quest walkthrough's notes saying they found a set of Mithril Armor, how will we know whether they mean the item 'Mithril Armor' or a full set of armor? Is there a way to cause less ambiguity before this starts coming up?

--Somercy 07:42, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I would assume Mithril Armor would have a capital A in armor, and a full set of said armor would not.

Shields

Light vs. Heavy- based on my experience, shields will level the corresponding armor skill (not when you block, which obviously levels block) when you're hit. So if you only want to level light armor, don't use a heavy shield. Also, heavy shields slow you down more. Anyone have contrary info?

This is correct, unless I'm misremembering some random situations I've been in. The skill that gains experience when you're struck appears to depend on the armor at the location of the hit, much like in Oblivion. When you're not blocking, and an attack hits your shield, the armor skill of the shield is the one that's exercised. Sentinull 21:35, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

How exactly does armor rating work?

I want to know how armor rating works exactly, and I feel that information should be added to the page when it's available. I know it reduces physical damage, the question is by how much, whether by percentage or value, what formula is used to determine the effectiveness, and if there is any hard (or soft?) cap.

In Oblivion it was a pure percentage based system. In Morrowind it was (according to this site) (Damage * Damage) / (Damage + Opponent Armor Rating), because the numbers you get for the armour rating stat are more like morrowinds, I would assume it will work the same way. So my char right now has 320 armour, say he was hit by a 50 damage attack it would be (2500) / (50 + 320) 7 dmg, which seems about right from my gameplay.213.81.109.62 01:44, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Yesterday I did a brief experiment using the bandit in front of the first mine you come across and a Snow Sabrecat. With 0 armor rating, the bandit hit for 6 damage and the Snow Sabrecat for 88 damage. With 384 armor rating, the bandit hit for 2 damage and the Snow Sabrecat for 38. An intermediate amount of armor saw 4 points of damage from the bandit. It's possible that 0-4 points of regeneration took place between when the enemy hit and when I checked my health, so that would make it ~4/8 and ~40/90 for the bandit and Snow Sabrecat respectively. This seems to suggest against a subtraction system (e.g. Fallout: New Vegas), though I can't tell anything more.

Relevant stats:

  • Dragonscale set (no shield)
  • 69 Light Armor skill
  • Agile Defender 4, Custom Fit

--Evil4Zerggin 01:56, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Testing:

Snowy Sabrecat

Armor Rating Damage Taken
0 88
63 80
115 72
120 69
142 72
167 64
186 59
205 62
240 53
246 55
257 54
290 48
326 44
351 41
464 29
514 24
574 18

Bleak Falls Barrow Bandit Archer

Armor Rating Damage Taken
0 25
90 20
204 16
362 11
464 8
514 6

Overall it does look pretty linear; at this rate it would take ~650 armor rating to reach 100% protection (but it's probably capped somewhere).

--Evil4Zerggin 04:49, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

NPC ARMORS

Right now, the listing is mixing NPC invisible-from-inventory armor with regular player armor. Most specifically, it's got the IDs for the NPC Thieves Guild Armor, rather than the player version (which many people need, since one's prone to sell the armor and then discover they need it back for a miniquest). The IDs are here. --200.74.61.205 01:14, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Possible answer: Dragon Armors are more powerful when refined but only by a small fraction.

How does Skill influence Armor?

Lets say we have a fictional plate mail with a base armor ration of 100. How high is the effective armor rating depending on the respective armor skill value? Aroddo 13:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Loading Screen Armor

In one of the loading screens, there is a dark elf pointing a Daedric Sword downward with black awesome looking hood and robe-ish armor. It looked like something from the Dark Brotherhood or possibly the Thieves guild, as it was sneaky looking. Anyone know what this is?--Shm0key 06:22, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I think u r talking about falmer hooded robes, they do look epic :p Qwertyone 23:27, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Where do you get falmer hooded robes? --Shm0key 07:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, you're after the Thalmor Hooded Robes, not the Falmer Hooded Robes. The Falmer don't wear robes - they're blind monster elves that live underground and despise surface-dwellers. The Thalmor may be bastards, but they're otherwise regular mer with extraordinarily badass outfits. :> --Unregistered

That loading screen is the Altmer info screen so its a High Elf (not a Dark Elf) Thalmor Justiciar wearing the Hooded Robes with a Daedric Sword. Those Robes provide bonus to Destruction cost and Magicka Regen but are not armor so no armor stats for them. Lord Eydvar 23:27, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

guildmasters armor

Hey, is this a typo, or does th guildmasters armor (light armor) have the highest base rating? Is t npc only, or can the player get it, too? If so, how? Qwertyone 23:31, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Not a typo, and I'll return the favor :P. You get it by completing the Thieve's guild.--Shm0key 07:01, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

About the supposed armor rating maximum

Just tested a theory I had, and I just smithed a set of full daedric armor that gave me an armor rating of 1491. The fact that there are enchantments and potions that increase smithing was not factored in. I made the best set using the best enchanted equipment I could. To improve this rating further, I enchanted as many slots as I could with the strongest fortify heavy armor enchant that I could. This meant enchanting the gloves, chest, a necklace, and a ring. These enchantments yielded a final heavy armor skill level of 212. This in turn bumped up the armor rating to a whopping 1896 which is almost double the posted. I don't know if it should be added to the page due the amount of enchanting involved, but if we're talking theoretical maximums, as the page seems to be, then I think I found it. --Rohndogg1 06:43, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Was there any visible limit to the actual percentage of negated armor? In Oblivion, the maximum was 80%, even though you could go higher, it would have no effect. There should be a limit in Skyrim. Were you able to find it?--Shm0key 07:08, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
How does one see the percentage of negated damage? I also have a character with a highly enchanted and smithed set of armor. The character could stand around in a group of bandits without taking damage any faster than the character's natural healing rate. I find it difficult to believe that a cap of 80% damage reduction would let my character do that. --Fluff 02:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, there is no way to see it directly. I had to do it via manual testing. --Evil4Zerggin 03:51, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
After doing some experimenting, I take it back. With a visible armor rating of 936, I was taking about 10 damage a hit from a Thalmor goon. With a visible armor rating of 627 (and without gauntlets), I was taking the same damage. With a visible armor rating of 456 (and without body armor), I was taking about 20 damage a hit. This fits the approximation formulas almost exactly. --Fluff 04:18, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
True, and in Oblivion it was actually 85% not 80% and I too can take normal enemies without threat. I use giants to train my skill because they can't kill me in 2 hits. What I was testing though wasn't the actual resistance as I thought a consensus had been reached on that. I was commenting on the number that was given and how I suspected that it was not in fact the highest. The interesting thing about that is that you can likely reach the max armor rating with weaker armor than previously though. I've yet to test it, but I suspect that it will be possible to do so with steel. Where this is more useful however is with light armors as it will allow for max resistance with more types of armor. Much of this is theory at this point and I can't test it until I get Skyrim working again. Damn 1.2 I will likely post more information once I've had time to play with the skills some more and I'll let you all know my findings. --Rohndogg1 00:25, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

You can hit the armor cap with any set of armor, theres a fairly large discussion on Bethesda forums here; http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1300996-armor-cap-ridiculous-damage-enchanting-alchemy-smithing-only-21-perks-thread-5/ Kai Heilos 01:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC) There is a glitch where you can get 2 sets of armour on, walking into a jail leaving your follower there with the armour you want on (cant be the same set of armour) then going out being caught going to jail, taking the armour off them. You then sleep they but a set of armour on you and now you have 2 sets. This should be looked at too?

Additional Smithing ways to hit Armor Cap

Perhaps someone doesn't want to spend perks in Smithing. That's fine; you'll just need a Fortify Smithing potion. Assuming you can get Daedric armor to drop, you can improve the Daedric armor to hit cap with Smithing of 108 and without any Smithing perks. Similarly, you can improve the Nightingale armor to hit cap with Smithing of 120 and without any Smithing perks. I think this is most significant with the Nightingale set since there isn't a perk that affects the improvement of it. --Fluff 04:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Armor cap, Light armor and Smithing

The page states that Light Armor can barely reach the cap with Dragonscale. It would probably be worth mentioning that with a high Smithing skill, it's easy to surpass the Armor cap. I don't have the exact numbers (still leveling), but even without the Matching Set perk a full suit of Legendary Dragonscale (100 Smithing, no smithing boosts from Enchanting or Alchemy) and a decent skill level (doesn't need to be maxed out) will put you over the cap. With maxed out Smithing and Light Armor the cap might be reachable even in lesser sets. Once I max out Light Armor, I'll see which sets put me over the cap. --Jandau 14:24, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't able to hit the cap with a Legendary Dragonscale set and all the perks (very close though). Are you using a shield? --Evil4Zerggin 14:52, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm at 747 armor rating with Dragonscale armor (no shield); light armor skill is only at 73 so 1 point missing in agile defender.

Are you sure you don't have other effects? I had only 464 displayed armor rating when I had about that level of skill/perks/equipment. --Evil4Zerggin 14:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Is displayed armor rating the Armor Rating that appears under Apparel in the Inventory screen? If that is the displayed armor rating then the assertion that you can't cap with light armor is wrong. My Armor Rating for a full set of Legendary Glass Armor including shield with 84 Light Armor skill and all points in Agile Defender, Custom Fit and Matching Set is 588. I have no other effects running. Without the shield it is 513 but if the statement about not being able to cap with light armor means without the shield then it should explicitly clarify that (generally because a full set of armor can be interpreted to mean including shield, and in particular because the formula for displayed armor rating shown includes the shield in the calculation). --DagmarH 11:48, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

I have found dragon scales under the college of winterhold during the quest for the college. But i was a level 81 and that can effect what individuals may find in chests. I didn't have any of those increase what you find in a chess perks either. Gamertag: Fiercelive
With 100 Smithing, 100 Light Armor, Dragon Armor perk, Agile Defender 5/5, Custom Fit, Matching Set and the Ancient Knowledge perk (15% smithing boost) I have 705 armor with four pieces of Dragonscale (no shield). Kai Heilos 22:20, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Dwarven Armor

Per the article: "Therefore, at 100 Smithing you will need 85 base armor with the appropriate perk, which...requires at least a Steel Plate set for Heavy Armor." It could be noted that Dwarven armor is also sufficient with the Ancient Knowledge perk. --Fluff 00:44, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Base Armor Rating

How exactly is base armor rating determined? I'm noticing a lot of incongruities in various armor ratings compared to their actual in-game values. --69.31.101.127 01:21, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Please read the formulas to see how the in-game displayed armor rating is computed. Your displayed armor rating is always higher than your base armor rating due to skills and possibly perks (even if you only have 15 skill, that's good enough for a 6% increase over the base value.) --Evil4Zerggin 02:27, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I realize that, the thing I'm noticing is that even comparing the base armors in-game, there are differences between what is shown on the page and the actual numbers in game. I had my first suspicions when I received the Guild Master's armor, and all of its armor ratings were higher than Nightingale, despite this page claiming otherwise.
I decided to do some research into the matter. As near as I can tell, base armor rating is the armor rating of the item when you have 0 in the associated skill, with no perks. When I did this, I got most of the base armor ratings on the page correctly. But Guild Master's armor and Nightingale are wrong.
The base armor rating for the Guild Masters armor is 38 for chest, 11 for boots and gauntlets, and 16 for the hood (which isn't listed at all). Exactly the same as glass armor. For Nightingale, the ratings are 34 for chest, 10 for boots and gauntlets and 15 for the hood, putting it midway between Scaled and Glass.
This also makes the note about being able to reach the damage reduction cap with light armor (with no shield) using these armors false. Dragonscale remains the best Light Armor. Anyone else want to confirm all this so it can be updated properly? --69.31.101.127 02:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
There are two different versions of the guild master's armor, and the one shown on this page right now is the unenchanted version -- because only unenchanted armor is shown on this main armor page. It's not the same version of the armor that you're looking at in game. For Nightingale armor, there are four different versions and, again, the one shown on this page is the unenchanted version. The version the player receives is documented at Leveled Items.
Basically right now the armor page contains a dump of all unenchanted armor that was created a couple hours after I first got my hands on the game -- in order to make information available to readers as quickly as possible. I'm now in the process of refining those initial lists; last night I cleaned up the Weapons pages, and every other page providing weapons stats. Armor pages were already on the list for tonight. --NepheleTalk 03:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Elven Guilded Armor

Would anyone mind checking if Elven Guilded Armor is considered as the same set as the rest of the elven armors? (as in will wearing Elven Guilded Armor, Elven boots, Elven gauntlets, and elven helmet benefit from the matching set light armor perk?) SeaAdmiral 07:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not. You'll lose the perk bonus. Kai Heilos 22:59, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Armor, balancing, rant and observations

It seems to me that the way armor works is fairly broken, especially in regards to how armor skills and enemy damage increases. At low levels, the armor and smithing skills are going to be low, so regardless what kind of armor you're using, or no armor at all, you're not noticing much effect. At mid levels (10-20) you find the occasional levelled enemy that hits for ~100+ damage, saber cats, trolls, giants, and at this point, armor skill levels are still going to be much lower than any skill that you use actively (weapons, block) so armor decreases the 100-damage-hitters to maybe 70, and at level 10-20 you're unlikely to have more than 200 health. The result is that even a focus on heavy armor turns a 2-hit kill into a 3-hit kill, which is barely noticeable in terms of how often you unexpectedly die.

As it is prohibitively expensive to train skills at a trainer, the player is not going to hit 100 in heavy armor until his level 30ies. At which point he will have at least 300hp, whereas enemies hit for around 200. Factor in 80% damage reduction and suddenly supposedly dangerous enemies need to hit you 8-10 times to kill. The difficulty curve for a heavy armor user is "armor doesn't make a difference before level 10", then "impossibly hard somewhere between 10 and 30", then "way easy after 30 to 40"

Some more observations:

  • As armor effectivity is mainly governed by skill, it doesn't make a noticeable difference whether one is using light or heavy armor. The protective difference barely makes a difference at any point in the game in terms of how many swings an enemy needs to take to kill you. Since heavy armor has so many disadvantages over light, the choice is clear: light armor is way to go.
  • Mage Armors are fairly useless. Even ebonyskin with all perks is less than 50% damage reduction, 2.5 times worse than capped armor, which is fairly easy to get, and requires constant recasting requiring a higher magicka pool, and the consequent lower health pool further aggravates the problem of everything oneshotting you.
  • the player can get smithing up to 100 right at the start of the game without fighting a single enemy, which will put him around level 10-12 when he does anything fun the first time ever. This is fairly easy as one can get to 100 smithing by making iron daggers over and over. As the armor skill and the available materials to make a set of full daedric armor don't become available until 30ies, this strategy may actually aggravate the problem of getting one shot. Imagine a character who essentially invests in nothing but armor being more vulnerable than a naked mage at level 1.
  • use block. The blocking skill tree and perks and shield usage in general appears far more effective than using armor, especially early on, and shield bashing is outright overpowered.
  • Raw Damage. Dual Wielding and Two Handed weapons offer enough damage to make short work of even the toughest of foes, and power attacks stagger the opponent, which in turn keeps him from attacking back.
  • No-Hit strategies: Stealth (Sneak/Backstab & Invisibility) and Range (Bows or Magic while kiting) allow for strategies that do not involve the player getting hit by the targets that can one-hit-kill the player. Both are virtually useless against higher level dragons.

tl;dr: The way armor works and levels, and the way levelled monster's damage levels make for a broken difficulty curve for everyone except the shield & armor using melee characters. (The Trailer shows such a character, my suspicion is that the game was balanced around this type) In my opinion, the armor mechanics need a major redesign so that heavy armor is actually more protective than light armor, and armor worn makes a difference in received damage at every level and not just after level 40. --PJF

You are so right! My stealth character sucks against dragons because I have low health and my perks are taken up by stealth perk tree which isn't useful against dragons. I imagine a mage character who invested mostly in magicka would have hard time against dragons as well. This game does need some balancing. --atsundwn
Actually, dragons are the only Kitable thing in the game. Every other enemy gets speed boosts (look at melee using humanoid enemies as they close with you for instance, they arent sprinting but they move 1.5-2x as fast as a sprinting orc, looks terrible) when you run from them, so unless you climb on things that they cannot they will always catch you. JimmyDeSouza 19:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't know about speed boosts, a paladin build of mine had no problem sprinting away from targets to heal up. Humanoid power attacks are slow animations with a low, fixed forward velocity anyways. Kiting doesn't strictly mean outrun. Permastaggering with bows or impact destruction spells - while backpedalling of course - is also kiting. The goal isn't outrunning a target, the goal is not getting hit while killing the target, so all you need to do is kill them before they can hit you. Impact stagger is indeed effective against grounded dragons, bows and sneak attacks however are generally not, as dragons are too big for bows, and you can't sneak up on a flying target and a grounded dragon will most likely attack you primarily. Of course it is technically possible to one-hit-sneak-attack-kill a dragon, I just don't find it a viable overall anti-dragon strategy. --PJF

Missing guard items?

Are the Winterhold Guard's Shield & Eastmarch Guard Helmet only available with console commands? I'm trying to collect the sets, but these two items don't seem to appear with their respective guards.

Armor Formula / Ancient Knowledge / Armor Mystery

Here is the formula I have come up with regaurding armor. This is my first wiki post so forgive me if its not up to code. I tried to make it easy to read.


The Ancient Knowledge status does not seem to work at all with reguards to armor, can anyone verify?


Furthermore, somewhere along the lines, my armor got a buff of an added .25 in the skill term. Instead of the 1-1.4 skill multiplication that I came up with above, it is now exactly 1.25-1.65 verifed on multiple pieces of armor. This is not attributed to the ancient knowledge perk at all. I tested on a level 2 character and this additional .25 was never there, nor did it appear by adding the ancient knowledge perk. I am unable to find out where this .25 comes from however it is on both of my level 57 characters.

Mirax 18:35, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Originally the formula said (1 + .4 * (Skill/100)) as you wrote. For some reason User:Kai_Heilos decided to change it. Also I'm told Ancient Knowledge only applies to Dwarven Armor but I've yet to try it. As for the mystery +25%, all I can say is check your equipment/perks/effects. --Evil4Zerggin 19:22, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

From what I've seen elsewhere, Ancient Knowledge is currently bugged one way or the other. Either the perk is incorrectly adding 25% to all armors, or the tooltip is incorrect about it only affecting Dwarven Armor. For now, it does indeed add 25% to all armor sets. --Fluff 19:47, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
There must be some internal flag given because just adding the Ancient Knowledge to my low level characters doesn't add the 25% bonus. And I want to stress that its not a straight 25% multiplication. Its an increase of an existing term. Mirax 20:19, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Come to think of it, the enchanting effect Fortify Light/Heavy armor says it improves the skill rather than the armor directly. Maybe this effect is the same way. I'll tweak the formula. --Evil4Zerggin 20:26, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
The enchantments on armor add directly to skill, and the nightingale bonus is a Direct 25 points on the end. I haven't tested the shrouded to see if its the same. Mirax 21:15, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
My apologies for changing the formulae. I think my mistake was that I had the Ancient Knowledge perk on and forgot to account for the armor boost recieved from that. That perk adds 25% to all armor, not just Dwarven, and you don't need to have it equipped, it's a boost across the board. Armor skill doesn't improve the boost, it works from base armor, but perks do effect it. Using the console to add it wont give you the effect as there is two effects with the name Ancient Knowledge, using addspell only gives you one of those effects (Which does nothing), the other is applied when you finish the quest.
You can find some number crunching for the perk here: http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1300996-armor-cap-ridiculous-damage-enchanting-alchemy-smithing-only-21-perks-thread-5/page__view__findpost__p__19626110 Kai Heilos 22:35, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Corinthian Helmet in the game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_Helmet

A loading screen that I have never seen before in my life showed a Corinthian style helmet (It looked more like a later one, with slightly more open eye slots and better spaces for the ears and trapezius) in the same way that it normally shows daedric helms and such.

Can you get the helmet in game? As I have never seen it and I would love to be able to wear one, as nothing looks better IMO. JimmyDeSouza 19:55, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

I found the helm in the Thieves Guild Quest Scoundrel's Folly. It's in Brinewater Cave at the end, where Gulum-Ei is waiting. The helmet is physically placed on one of the shelves. (VCV)

physical durability not hyperbolic

durability is actually not hyperbolic. hyperbolic functions go to infinity at infinity. this is because the limit of a hyperbolic function at infinity is infinity. e^x - e^-x is simply e^x.

physical durability actually goes to infinity as damage reduction approaches 100%. this is asymptotic because this is actually a geometric series. this equation is 1/(1-[damage reduction]). clearly, if damage reduction is 100%, you have an infinite amount of life. intuitively, this makes sense, since damage intake has been entirely mitigated.

According to Wikipedia this is in fact hyperbolic growth. The graph of 1 / (1-x) has the shape of a hyperbola, though shifted and rotated 45 degrees. --Evil4Zerggin 22:28, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I won't even try to lie, I am not a math major at all. In fact, math is my worst subject, but I'd like to say this... I do know what a hyberbolic function is. The data is definitely hyperbolic. Technically speaking, are not all graphs considered infinite, including pie graphs, due to the fact that data can always be added? Additionally, having a cap at 80% merely means that yes, the graph can go on forever and ever but at a certain point it stops growth... And for OPs second point, no you do not have an "infinite amount of life" because that would imply that nothing can kill you. What you've stated is that once you reach 100% armor rating, nothing in the game causes damage. Physical damage is actually only a very small amount of damage in the game. There is damage from arrows which I know in other games was not considered "physical", there is magical, fall damage, even drowning... To suggest that 100% armor rating prevents all of this is just silly. Besides, there is a difference between taking "zero" damage and taking "no" damage. "zero" is still a number that can be factored into an equation. Having "no" damage merely implies that nothing happened; the enemy swung at the air.
hyperbolic function means explicitly of the form e^x. infinite here is the value of what the function returns. that means set x to 1, and your y=f(x)=inf. in a hyberbolic function - ANY of them, setting x to 1 will be FINITE and not infinite. in mathematics, hyperbolic is not simply 'curvy'. it means sinh, cosh, tanh, or arc versions. hyperbolic growth does not imply that the function is hyperbolic. the graph is a picture of the function, not of its growth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_function. this is not about whether or not the game will set your damage resist to 100%. especially since mods will invariably arrive with the ability to set the damage resistance to 200%, where you'll gain life after being hit. this is about predicting the amount of damage resistance you will gain from any given armor rating to any other armor rating.

Steel Plate Shield

In the guide book, there are stats for the Steel Plate Shield, but I have yet to be able to locate one, and, up until stumbling upon the entry in the book, believed such a thing to not exist. Can anyone shed a little more light on this topic? Did Bethesda create the Steel Plate Shield originally, then choose to remove it later, or did something not execute correctly and the shield doesn't actually appear in the game? Or is it simply that one cannot smith a Steel Plate Shield, but it can be found elsewhere? Or perhaps the book just has an incorrect entry. Maybe you guys can help me.

Steel Plate Boots, Armor, Gauntlets, Helmet and Bracers (But only enchanted bracers). There is no shield. Kai Heilos 23:05, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Smiling Dwarven Helmet in Aftland

The dwarven helmet in the Animiculatory in Aftland is unique. It smiles. As you can see in the uploaded images, the regular dwarven helmet makes a frown. Perhaps this should be noted somewhere. - Anonymous Skyrim Player. --98.208.74.153 05:43, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that when Lydia (Whiterun Housecarl) wears the Dwarven Helmet it also smiles, but the same helmet on my (male) character, has a frown. I'd assumed that it was sex-based. -Digi-ghost 13:36, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Compare the male and female images of Dwarven Armor on the page. You'll notice that the female version looks more feminine, and I think is what you mean by smiling. The Invisible Chocobo 14:17, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Mage armor+flesh spells

When cast with clothing on, do these grant the hidden 100 armor or only the listed value in inventory?

+1 I would also like to know this but am not on pc. 22/12/11

Ok, I did testing on PS3 and feel confident saying that the player character with Mage Robes/Clothes does not benefit from the hidden armor values. I'll make the Armor page more explicit that this means no hidden armor bonus for clothes. Read on for my testing (on Master difficultly, difficulty doesn't matter, but it explains my high dmg taken), which should only serve to make me credible. I made one enemy attack me, although the enemy's dagger did have a leeching effect, my main interest was immediately following the first hit. I am looking at the amount of Health taken by the first hit. Wearing all clothes(1 test) or no clothes(2 tests) had nearly the same dmg taken, and averaged to ~81 over the 3 tests. This weakly proves it, but I explicitly prove it next. Manipulating the Mage Armor perk levels and using diff Alteration spells I did 1 test each at these displayed armor levels: 100 Armor = 71 dmg taken, 200 Armor = 64 dmg taken, 300 Armor = 52 dmg taken. Now, I got nearby armor and equipped it on all 4 slots, giving me a displayed Armor value of 70 (hidden Armor value being 170) -- it gave 64 dmg taken. --67.239.60.46 12:09, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Female Model for Armor Images

Can someone post an image set to mirror the male set in the main article. There seems to be some significant differences on a few of them depending on gender. It would be nice to compare and i'm sure players using a female character would really appreciate it as well. I would post it myself but i'm on ps3 and that makes screenshot work tedious.Tybodger 08:33, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I have a female Khajiit that I could do this with, if people would want it. I'll admit I know nothing about how to properly upload screenshots but I will read up on it and follow the formatting of the male images. I'll commit to the project if you would like it to be done. (EDIT: I'm not too sure what I've done, but I took a sample screenshot just to show you all, I think it's here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:SR-item-Dwarven_Armor_Female.jpg If that image is alright I'll be happy to do the rest, let me know. =) The Invisible Chocobo 04:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Haven't been on in a while. Since the new pics up on the page are a khajit I'm assuming you went ahead and posted them. Thanks a bunch for that if you did or if not you whoever did. Dang forgot to sign my post. Thanks again. Tybodger 09:09, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I did put them up. I had taken them and I figured I may as well upload them, I mean I knew they weren't totally crap xD I'm glad I could make my first major contribution to the site. The Invisible Chocobo 09:13, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! Now I know that Daedric looks badass on female characters. Time to acquire some of those hearts. :) 155.69.2.11 15:17, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Could someone post pics for the the armors with a Bosmer since it seems that the armors change on them as well. The Fur armor is very different on female Bosmer in particular as its actually the Alternate but with the cape from the standard. Lord Eydvar 04:45, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
There's actually four different Fur Armors, I just followed the male models and did 'fur' and 'fur alternate'. I chose the two that looked most dissimilar to each other. I just didn't deem it worth it considering the rest of the pieces would remain the same so the image wouldn't look that different, and wouldn't serve much of a purpose. The Invisible Chocobo 04:59, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah thanks I actually just realized that myself found 2 ones I hadn't see yet back to back seems all 4 are sorta different parts of the last or first ones. Lord Eydvar 06:52, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Partial Armor Viability

I've noticed much discussion regarding reaching armor cap with lesser armors and/or 'saving' perk points from use in armor trees due to the fact that buffed top level armors can blow the cap away. The extrapolation I don't think I've yet seen discussed is this: how few bits of really good armor do you need to hit at least close to cap? Giving up matching-set, all-heavy, and all-armored hidden bonuses (is the +100 fixed or multiplied for that matter?) is obviously going to seriously ding your rating even before talking about leaving off bits, but considering I've seen people claiming to have obliterated the cap by a factor of five, is the innocent dream of eventually getting top protection without a cookie cutter set and without crippling weight issues a fantasy? Personally I'll feel mildly annoyed if my ability to customize my appearance a little (like wearing a hood instead of a helmet) comes at an unaffordable price. 173.181.38.229 09:10, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

The hidden armor is per piece. 40 for chest, 20 for helm, boots and gloves. The cap can be hit with any set of armor if you use alchemy and enchanting without more than two perks in your armor type (Except those without smithing perks, they need more). There's a giant thread on it here; [1] Kai Heilos 18:18, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Page has been updated, its 25 per piece Kai Heilos 08:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Actually, if you use the restoration potion glitch you can get any amount of armour with 1 peice of armour.
What you do is max out your enchantment, which is easy as pie. Then duel enchant Fortify alchemy and fortify smithing on some gloves, a ring, a necklace and a helmet (or a falmer helmet and a circlet, both can be worn at once) with any level soul gem, the more powerful the initial enchantment, the faster it will be, but the initial does not matter in the end. Anyway, once those are made buy the ingredients for a load of fortify restoration potions. Make the potions ONE AT A TIME and after you have made each one, drink it, unequip all your +alchemy/smithing gear and then reequip it. Drinking the potion will make your enchanted items more powerful, but will also increase the power of the next potion when drank.
Using this method you can get any amount of armour on any item. For instance I has a 26 million armour daedric cuirass earlier. JimmyDeSouza 00:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Validity/source for "approximate formulas"

I'd like to know how the approximate formulas were reached, specifically with regard to the supposed cap of 567 and the "invisible" armor rating attributed to the four main pieces of armor (helm, bracer, boots, armor/chest). From the available information, this seems to be little more than conjecture and not derived from any empirical data or hard testing. Also, the effect of perks like Bone Breaker, which ignore up to 75% of armor, are not mentioned, so these need to be taken into account and, if necessary, tested. Most importantly is whether or not these effects affect the armor rating or the overall damage resistance. I suspect they affect the armor rating, making very high armor ratings actually worthwhile. With enchanting/alchemy/smithing it should be possible to achieve an armor rating high enough that it should still provide 80% resistance to damage even against foes using maces/warhammers and full perk trees (i.e. ignoring 75% of armor).Kastagir 20:25, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I derived the formulas from testing being attacked by a Snow Sabrecat. Some early data can be seen further up on the talk page, though I later improved the test using console commands. [2] says that maces/warhammers indeed apply to the armor rating, but IIRC also that almost no NPCs have significant armor or the mace/warhammer perks. --Evil4Zerggin 21:46, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

That said, I don't remember if I checked each piece of armor separately. I distinctly remember that the sum of the four pieces gave an effect equal to 100 points of armor rating, and I seem to recall chest armor being more important than the rest (and it would be consistent with the way Smithing works), but on the other hand there is one game setting that might suggest that all pieces give the same hidden rating. Perhaps you might try an experiment yourself to confirm/correct this? --Evil4Zerggin 23:18, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Tested--the chest has the same effect as the rest. --Evil4Zerggin 02:08, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Possibly related game settings

fArmorBaseFactor = 0.03
fArmorRatingBase = 1.00
fArmorRatingMax = 2.50
fArmorRatingPCMax = 1.40 
fArmorScalingFactor = 0.12
fMaxArmorRating = 80

fArmorScalingFactor seems to be the 0.12 in the formula, and fMaxArmorRating might be the maximum damage reduction. According to the old construction set wiki, fArmorRatingBase, fArmorRatingMax, and fArmorRatingPCMax control the skill effect, which is consistent with observed results. Don't know what fArmorBaseFactor is, though. --Evil4Zerggin 23:09, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Testing seems to show the chest has the same effect as the other pieces. Perhaps fArmorBaseFactor means how much hidden damage reduction each piece gives? --Evil4Zerggin 02:13, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Armor Penetration

"Note that there are several in-game effects and perks that ignore or bypass a given percentage of armor, so there is some value in having an armor rating that exceeds this cap. [verification needed — see talk page]" As far as I'm aware the only thing that penetrates armor is the Mace perk, and I don't believe NPCs have perks making this a moot point. Anyone aware of anything else? Kai Heilos 08:22, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I've received a ghostly sword ("Ghostblade": http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Unique_Items ) in the Ansilvund quest. This sword ignores armor for at least a portion of each attack. When the final battle is over, the spirits of Fjori and Holgeir will appear, thank you for releasing them from the spell, and leaving behind the unique Ghostblade as a token of gratitude.--Fadamor 05:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that several enemies can decapitate you in finishing moves, doesn't this only happen with perks? --76.84.148.87 06:42, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Unlisted armor pieces

Seems there's a redirect for the Gilded Wristguards (ItemID E84C1) to the Armor page, however that piece is not referenced anywhere on the Armor page. Torinir 20:26, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I changed the redirect to Skyrim:Clothing#Gilded_Wristguards Kai Heilos 20:57, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Strange, because the Gilded Wristguards are actually Light Armor, not clothing. Torinir 16:26, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't know, that's where I found them when I did a search. Feel free to move them back if they're supposed to be here :) Kai Heilos 03:23, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Steel Shin Boots (same stats as Steel Cuff Boots) are also missing, as are the entire Imperial Armor and Stormcloak Armor sets. I don't play on PC, so I can't get their IDs, otherwise I would add them myself. 209.66.120.3

without the skill perks at all...

I wouldn't mind knowing potential DR's of the following situations:

100 Smithing + smithing Gear + max Fortify Smithing potion (with all relevant perks increasing the potency) and 100 relevant armor skill with NONE of the armor skill perks:

1. full Dragonscales with shield 2. full Dragonscales without shield 3. full Daedric with shield 4. full Daedric without shield

I realize the DR caps at 80% and im trying to work out exactly how much each armor perk is really worth, just havin some trouble with the equations and stuff, if someone could just be like... 1 45% 2 35% 3 55% 4 45% i would be forever grateful, you know for all those who favor the crafts instead of armor perks. Or even if someone could just say no its not possible to hit 80% even...

oh yea and editorial on skyrim defense: DR is nice but block skilltree's ability to control enemies owns all- including dragons

You can find max armor numbers here; [3] Kai Heilos 11:13, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Leveled List Info

Is the listed level table an estimate, or is it possibly wrong? I ask because I just found daedric armor in a chest at the end of Southfringe Sanctum at level 42. Just a fluke, perhaps?--174.53.152.188 00:30, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I believe it's an estimate based on what people have observed in the game. As with most info here, take it with a grain of salt. Kai Heilos 00:46, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Nephele says it was pulled from the game data. The current theory is that rather than being based on the player's level, it's based on the creature's / dungeon's level. I had a full set of Scale on my current char since level *7* though, and two glass pieces since the very early 20s, so if that theory's right the potential adjustment is absolutely huge. But I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be anyway, since if you can craft Daedric at level 10 then shops and drops are almost meaningless. Aliana 20:55, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Some nice Ebony for Jordis at level 30. That was from a boss chest, the Orcish shield I got way back was sitting on the ground, and my Scale *must* have come off someone's corpse since I've always had the full set, so that's every source confirmed except shops (which are probably the only things that DO use the "base" leveled list).Aliana 18:03, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Holy WOW: enchanted (and seriously so: 60% Frost Resist) Ebony Shield at *20*. So either the "enchanted ... one level later" is wrong, or it's at least 13 levels rather than 12. It came from a completely generic location: a chest in the Silver Hand fort while collecting Meridia's Beacon. And convenient too: I'm going to have a lot of fun being immune to Malkoran's absurdly overpowered Frost spell at the end of this. :P Aliana 10:15, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Calculations section

No offense, but it looks like ravings of a madman. And why are we representing linear damage reduction with a hyperbolic graph again? 178.183.234.174 18:58, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with the above poster, it's a confusing section and his numbers are incorrect as Liudeius noted on the smithing talk page. I'm going to remove the section as that's four people that have queried it and the numbers are wrong. Kai Heilos 03:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Steel Plate Helmet

What is with the look of the helmet? It looks completely shitty compared to the rest of the armor its not detailed at all. the detail looks like what it would seem like at a far distance when you are zooming it. It's blurry looking whats with that? most undetailed armor piece in the game

Edit: There is something wrong with your game. It looks fine in my game. I suspect something is wrong when loading the texture in your game.

We Need Statistics for Faction Armor.

Ok so I'm not on PC so can't do this myself but we need to get the Faction armors added into their respective lists. ATM we're missing Forsworn, Guard, Stormcloak, and Imperial armors (weapons as well in the case of the Forsworn). There are probably others but those are the ones I noticed missing. Lord Eydvar 04:14, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I think all the ones you've noticed missing are on the Specialty Gear page. I know it could make sense to have them on the armor page but because they are only found on certain NPCs/in particular places, I think they belong on that page. The Invisible Chocobo 11:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks hadn't even noticed that page, but still think we should at least enter one of each different group into the main armor/weapon lists. So like just list Guard Armors, Forsworn Armors etc since I know for example that Forsworn weapons are somewhere between Dwemer and Elven in strength and their armor is the same I think. Lord Eydvar 21:39, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Complete Confusion on Armor Rating

So I have to ask, based on the information I've read here, does this mean that the some of the perks under Light Armor and Heavy Armor and Smithing are useless? I don't mean "useless" in that the player shouldn't get them, but "useless" in that at a certain stage they become meaningless. Let me explain. I have a suit of Dragonscale (No shield), with every single Smithing and Light Armor Perk there is to too offer. In addition to that, I've upgraded the entire suit while under the influence of four enchanted (Also have all the Enchantment perks) items that increase my Smithing by a total of 88% (22% x 4 items). I've also drank the Blacksmith's Elixer (Fortify Smithing 50% for 30 seconds). My armor rating for the Dragonscale Armor, which I've further enchanted to give me an additional 45% Light Armor Rating bonus (Again, four items) yields a grand total of exactly 900 Armor Rating. Since there is a cap at 80%, I have to ask; Is my armor rating 80% of 900, which is around 720 and therefore the remaining 180 armor rating is useless and redundant, or does that mean that because my armor rating is so much more than the 567 that is displayed under the Armor page, under the "Armor Cap" section that the additional 333 armor rating is completely and utterly useless (333 from 900 - 567)? I simply don't understand... I guess an easier way to say it is... Since my armor rating is over the "cap" of 567, but it is displayed at "900", does the additional "333" become useless? Because the point I'm wanting to get at is that if a player can get this high of an armor rating through enchantments and potions, or through the Smithing Skill, are some of the Perks worthless, such as for instance Custom Fit and Matching Set? 8:13 PM 25, Dec 2011 (CST).

Well, basically, yes. Having an armor rating above 567 is technically useless. However, the 80% damage resistance cape is harder to reach with light armor so, if you don't wanna "cheat" by abusing of Smithing enchantments and potions, it is necessary to learn those perks. 82.243.194.53 08:55, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Hidden Armor Rating effect on Armor Cap

How does this affect the Armor Cap? If I'm wearing 4 pieces of armor, should I aim for 467 displayed Armor Rating (567-100), or does the 567 take into account the extra 100 from the Hidden Armor Rating? 97.117.238.93 15:10, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

It does take it into an account, so 567 displayed in the inventory means maximum damage resistance. You can easily check it yourself: (567 + 100) * 0.12 = 80.04. 178.183.236.161 12:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
So the actual Armor cap is 667, then. It would be a good idea to say that, then mention that every piece of armor you equip also gives a hidden 25 Armor; as the page looks now, it basically says that 567 is the actual cap, and you should be aiming for 467 Armor. That only gives 68.04% Damage Resistance. I'll see about re-wording the section to better clarify this, but won't promise anything. 97.117.238.93 14:56, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Sudden thought. Do Shields also count for the hidden 25 Armor? I would assume they do, but the game tends to not know what to do with Shields in general, so I thought I'd clarify. 97.117.238.93 21:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

"Elven Light" is actually Specialty Gear (Thalmor)

Someone else can move it: I always screw up tables.

^^ was me. Done, possibly even without breaking things for once. Aliana 15:37, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Ancient nord armors

Thought it should appears here since the weapon pages has nord hero weapon.. (well I will screwed up if i tried column things)

It's more or less a speciality gear. The only character wearing it, aside from the ghosts in Forelhost and Draugrs, is Aela (even though she's tagged with Light Armor) On the other hand, it can be crafted so... Well I don't know 82.243.194.53 14:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


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