Semi Protection

Skyrim talk:Blood on the Ice/Archive 1

The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995
Jump to: navigation, search
This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Blood on the Ice discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Amulet... What?

I just wanted to point out the fact I had reported to Jarleif with the books, but I did not find an amulet. So I thought it rather strange I mentioned an amulet when I reported to him. I went back to check, found the amulet, and it appears to be stuck in my inventory now as a quest item ~ Dwarfmp 21:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

the amulet is the necromancers amulet, i found it straight away, but i finished the quest and it is still stuck in my inventory, thats obviously a bug (Eddie The Head 06:38, 16 November 2011 (UTC))
The amulet is under a pile of Butcher flyers on a bookshelf. You have to move the flyers to find it.

Off the trolley at step 13: resolved

As soon as I hit step 13 and spoke with Jarleif, the court mage was arrested and the quest marked complete. No conversation options appeared for discussing the amulet with Calixto, and while Viola would discuss the flyers, nothing else happened (this is after the quest was "completed"). The books and amulet remained in inventory. 17:09, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

That is why I prefer my alternative suggested path. There will be another murder in a day or two at which point the quest will resume.

(original commenter here) That didn't happen, but I figured out why. After a couple of days or so (I wasn't keeping really close track), seeing nothing was happening and the quest was marked complete, I sold the flyer and books to the general store in Whiterun. You have to keep them (not sure which one, but at least one) in inventory and wait several days (I think) before the conversation options with the court mage get back on track.

After maybe a month of game time I bought them back from the Whiterun general store, visited the court mage in his cell yet again, and voila - back on the trolley! 15:15, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Quest Bug.

I completed the Imperial faction quests and the imperials now run Windhelm(not windhelm guards). I entered and exited Windhelm atleast 6 times manually(no fast travel in or out) and fast traveled once i had left the city to another city. I'd teleport back to the stables and run in manually. Afterwards I fast traveled to the stables, waited untill 2:00 a.m. and checked the graveyard. Not a soul in sight, let alone a body.

I tried using the setstage MS11 15 command to see if i could jump to another spot in the quest but it didnt even do anything. I think the Quest Id is wrong or something. Anyone have any ideas?

I've tried several console commands, including setstage, startconversation, and set ms11enteringwindhelmcount etc. None of them works. Hope Creation Kit can be released soon. 05:10, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
I believe the quest won't happen once the imperials control the city. I guess the presence of a large military police force means night-prowling murderers can't move around freely to do what they do?
From the official tech support: "Q: Cannot progress through “Blood on the Ice” quest after progressing through the Civil War. A: One of the key NPCs in this quest is a guard who is a member of the Stormcloaks. If the player sides with the Imperials during the Civil War and advances far enough, this guard will no longer be present. The player will have to revert to a save before this has occurred in order to continue to progress through this quest." So anyone know the ID of the guard?

I completed stormcloaks quest but when I came to graveyard at 2 am there wasn't any crime or something and I cand start this quest,anyone can help me?

p.s. I've entered and leaved the town many times

I've looked into this for some more time. I discovered that the quest is kicked, for the 4th time you enter the Windhelm, but there's something preventing ms11 quest to start (ms11kicker works correctly. And so it seems ms11preessentializing). And that's the reason why setstage ms11 x cannot work. A new game will not encounter such problem. I'll continue to find out why. 22:15, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

There is the answer , guy is still alive and is there but Quest is complete : "Hey guys I think I figured it out.

I tried setting the stage to different points but upon saving and reloading a few times I found out that a particular pattern seems to trigger a victim being killed next to candlehearth hall.

This is the pattern - (all these are console commands, do each one in order)

setstage MS11b 15

setstage MS11b 10

setstage MS11b 20

Let me know if it works for any of you"

   - Just tried it, doesn't seem to work
Works for me. I used setstage ms11b 10 to start the second part of the Blood on the Ice Quest. I got stuck after completing the first part: I investigated Hjerim, took some of the "Beware the Butcher" pamphlets, the strange amulet beneath them and the two Butcher journals. The guards pointed me to Viola Giordano for the pamphlets and Calixo for the amulet. I chose to speak to Viola first who told me about the court wizard Wuunferth. The marker for Calixo vanished right after that step and I couldn't find him or enter his house without breaking into it. So I told Jorlief about my investigation and he arrested Wuunferth which ended the first part of the quest. I wasn't able to talk to Wuunferth in his prison cell...he would simply train me in destruction magic but no other topics were possible. There was no murder in the following days and weeks. Using setstage ms11b 10 allowed me to talk to Wuunferth about the new murder directly or you can find the murder victim next to Candlehearth Hall surrounded by guards and spectators. 17:54, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Not working for me. 19:08, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm currently experimenting with a new character to see if I can determine the exact point at which the console commands stop working, and hence the quest is unobtainable. I'm making a new save any time I progress in the Dark Brotherhood quest chain, then checking "setstage MS11 10" to see if the quest appears in my log... Let's hope this gets us somewhere. 05:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

The quest "Blood on the Ice" wouldn't initiate for me. Here's how I got the house anyways:

While your mouse is over Jarleif enter these commands in console. It should give you the house and allow you to buy upgrades for it.

setstage a7b33 10

completequest ms11

completequest ms11b

-This one worked for me and allowed me to buy all the upgrades.

I'll add to this conversation - if that's a reply from Bethesda's tech support, that's *shocking*. The product is faulty (due to programming bug) and they are legally obliged to fix it. Now, with that rant out of the way, I too was stuck on this quest, and had completed the civil war quests and the imperials had taken over Windhelm. Even though the mage was supposedly locked up, he was in the palace and I was able to talk to him. He told me that the killer would strike in the stone quarter during the next night. Sure enough, in the marketplace, Calixto is there, as is Jora, a priest of Talos. I could not interact with Calixto ("this person is busy"). After reading this page, I learnt of the necromancer's amulet. I went back to the house, and found it. Strange that the mage talked about it, even though I'd never originally found it. Anyways, even then, I could not interact with Calixto, nor kill him. I ended up fast travelling to Solitude, then waited 12 hours and went back to Windhelm and straight to the marketplace. Sure enough, there was Calixto, now with a dagger in his hand, directly behind Jora about to kill her. I still could not interact with him. So, I simply exited the marketplace, and it triggered Calxito killing Jora. Calixto ran past me, I chased him down and killed him and got the quest completed, talk to the Jarl's aid message. I couldn't initially find him, so found and spoke with the new Jarl, who told me that I'd done his city a great service and that he'd make a house available to me, if I wanted to purchase it. I then went back downstairs and there the Jarl's aid was and I could buy the house and complete the quest fully, etc. No cheat codes entered. Hopefully that helps someone if they end up in the same position that I was in. Dpastern 15:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I have never heard of a company being "legally obligated" to fix bugs in their games. And I don't see anything, in any warranty or legal print that I can find, stating they are. Bethesda fixes their products out of courtesy to their marketing demographic, so that their products can be sold. But, if they want to stand by their product as is, then that is their decision. I just wanted to throw that into the air. ESTEC 18:10, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Another Glitch Version

I talked to Viola and to Calixto about the Amulet and the Butcher. I have no option now to talk to the mage about anything other than buying spells or training in magic. I even talked to Jorlief, and he had nothing to say, and didn't offer to arrest the mage. Edit: I got the options to appear by going back to talk to Viola and asking her about the court mage, in contravention of the instructions on this page. Then I could talk to Wuunvferth.

try reloading a save 112jesse 18:37, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Second Victim's Name

Does anyone know the name of the second victim? The first was Suzannah the Wicked, the buxom lady from the Inn. I successfully saved her, but I was just in the Inn, and someone was commenting: "I can't believe Isabella is gone. She was such a helpful girl." I was wondering if the second victim might have been Isabella, and the comment a glitch?

The second in-game victim - the one that can be saved - is, from my experience, a random non-essential female. The first time I did this quest the victim was the elf from the stables, Arivanya. The second time I seem to recall it was the Argonian, Shahvee. Don't forget that there were Butcher victims before you start the quest, Isabella may well be one of those. 04:57, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

isabella is the chick whose house he sets up in.the daughter

Nope, that was Friga Shatter-Shield 21:47, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
For me, the second person killed is Arivanya (the girl who lives next to the Windhelm stables). This is my third playthrough, and all 3 times it has been Arivanya. ( 05:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC))
For me, that woman is not the second to be killed, but rather the one I have to save from being killed in the market at the end, so it's not that simple. Thwgatrostys 09:05, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Another interesting glitch

If you walk too close to the door to the butchers house when the quest is active (I took the quest, but never really began even questioning the people), the quest will glitch out and be set to "find a way to enter the house", deleting all previous journal entries for this quest. If me completing the dark brotherhood quests did not break the quest, this certainly did, as I needed to skip through it using the setstage command. 16:56, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Removeing the Strange Amulet

If you finished the quest and the Strange Amulet is stuck in your inventory and you're on the PC.

Open the console

player.removeitem 000d2328 1

Re-acquiring the amulet

It is possible to pickpocket the amulet off Calixto after you have sold it to him. With a pickpocket skill of around 50, my character had a 0% success chance. However, if you have the pickpocketing perk which adds 25% to your success rate when an NPC is sleeping, you can obtain the amulet from Calixto when he is sleeping (if you can't pick the master lock, just pickpocket his key during the day).

You can sell this back to him (he resumes dialogue as if you had mentioned the amulet to him before but decided not to sell it) and receive 500 gold again, and presumably you can repeat this indefinitely.

Selling the amulet immediately caused some issues with the quest progression for me: the only quest marker left pointed to Jorleif, who offered no further assistance, the mage had no special dialogue options, and I did not think to speak to Viola (even if I had, you need the pamphlet in your inventory to get the relevant dialogue anyway). Pickpocketing the amulet was the only way I could resolve the quest, since I was then able to talk to Viola and proceed normally, selling the amulet to Calixto again at the appropriate time.

So, this offers away to obtain all posible rewards for the quest: Gold for selling the amulet, the Necromancer's Amulet (with enchantment), and the good favour of the Windhelm guards.

Extra Helpful/Important Notes.

I had some problems getting this quest down right the first time, as the walkthrough seems to be a little disjointed and missing either some key points (or at least points I feel would've helped immensely) or just some extra notes that might prove useful.

First being that Calixto has an extremely annoying schedule. He opens his curiosities store at around 9am and closes at around 5pm, and the only way to be able to speak with him about the amulet is when he's sitting in his chair at the store front. (Thus, breaking in is not an option; he'll just yell at you to get out).

Second, the walkthrough says to proceed with Wuunferth by selecting the "What do we do now?" option, after speaking to Calixto and Viola, then sell the amulet; this I found isn't physically possible. Apparently the murder is a scripted event, starting with when you select this option. (If after selecting this you attempt to sell the amulet, Calixto's store will be locked and you can actually find him lurking about the small marketplace.) (Also it apparently doesn't necessarily matter when you get to the Blacksmith's Quarters marketplace as long as it's after 9pm the night Wuunferth tells you of the murder).

BASICALLY: See Calixto to get amulet appraised, speak to Viola, then go and accuse Wuunferth. Don't proceed with "what happens now," and either choose the other option or end the conversation, jam back to Calixto's to sell the amulet, and back to Wuunferth to hear his prediction. Proceed from there, and you'll have 500 gold and an Amulet of Necromancy to show for it.

OI, sorry for all that babble, I hope it may have helped the one single person who had newb-level comprehension troubles as I did, LOL. OTL 07:59, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

FROM ANOTHER PLAYER: the above player's advice have been tested on PC and verified working, ty.

Actually, you can't sell the amulet after framing Wuunferth in discussion with Jorleif. You need to first speak to Calixto and Viola, at this point you need to sell the amulet. As soon as you've framed Wuunferth you can't sell the amulet to Calixto. Mkxv 20:58, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Necromancer Amulet - removed bug

If you have Wuunferth arrested, then the Necromancer Amulet cannot be obtained. It can be obtained by entering player.additem 000c891d 1 into the console.

As for as I know, this is untrue. I sold the amulet to Calixto, then reported back to Jorleif and had Wuunferth arrested. When I came back sometime later in Windhelm, another murder had occured and I was told to patrol the Stone Quarter. I killed Calixto, and he had the Necromancer Amulet on his body. I was able to retrieve it from his body. The quest is done, and I'm free to do whatever I want with it. Wolok gro-Barok 16:30, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Calixto wont Die?

never sold the amulet. never saw a second murder. just saw him book it to the house after i talked to the wizard in the dungeon. so i followed him and he attacks me but he wont die and the guards run away from him when he follows me out of the house. im playing on 360 so console commands arent an option. any help?

Same as above, also the last two corpses are missing; the one to continue the quest after locking up the mage (though the guard still speaks to you about her) and the next victim in the market place, though the area is cluttered with things being knocked off nearby stalls as if there's been a struggle. Left Palace of the Kings to see Calixto running through the streets to the house, kicks off when entering, won't die, won't speak, won't pickpocket. Decorations are available though, just quest is incomplete again.

-I have the same bug, and even on PC, the "setessential <base id> 0" command does nothing.

Found these console commands as a fix; encountered the same issue:
PRID 0001B11D
Sramdi 05:44, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

locked curiosity museum bug (360)

So I was playing through without reading any guides (thus not knowing how to avoid certain bugs), I ended up getting the fliers and amulet and then immediately going to the steward to accuse the mage. I did *not* speak to Calixto to get the amulet identified. It marked the quest complete, and I tried to go to Calixto because the amulet was still stuck in my inventory, but his house was locked no matter the time of day or night. After a bit, I decided to say screw it and broke in. He was in there and was none too happy with me having broken in. I couldn't get him to talk to me so I just ran out before I earned a bounty/attack. I then forgot about this quest for a few game months, going around and doing other various quests.

At some point, I read here that the quest wasn't actually completed, but also saw the bug about breaking in and decided to see if I could finish it anyway. I went to the dungeons and talked to the mage guy, and found out about the second murder and was told when the next one was. I went to Calixo's house, picked the lock, went in and he was not inside. I went in and out a few times, then fast traveled to Windhelm. When I went back to the house it was actually unlocked (you know how even after you pick a door lock it often still mentions "pick lock: master" that had gone away).

Wandering around the inn the next night, I never actually saw the murder, Calixo or the girl. It was later on in the day that I went to where the market stalls were and there in front of everyone Calixo knifed the next woman. I killed him, reported to the jarl and everything seems to be fixed.

I'm not sure what, if anything, got it to finally let him out, although I'm pretty sure it happened at some point prior because I had visited the town a few times in the time between first "completing" and coming back, and on at least one of those times I broke into the house and there was no one there, but I did not take any further action on this quest.

Sorry, but this seems really odd. As I understand your post, you broke into his museum, were told to leave then left for months and when you returned, he was 'buggy'? I realize you also added a bug note on the article, but I'm afraid this cannot be tested - and will therefore be removed to this very talk page when I launch my revamp. Maybe in time, the CK can tell us more but for now I think it's too unlikely to be a common problem. Has anyone else encountered this problem?? --Krusty 00:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes - this same thing happened to me, at lvl 16 on PC. I talked to Calixto but did not sell the amulet. Then went to try to find Viola, but she had disappeared. Since I couldn't find her, I thought maybe I had to sell the amulet (hadn't tried looking online yet) and went back to Calixto's house - but it was locked (Expert). I waited all day, but it never unlocked. Finally I broke in, and he says something like "You aren't supposed to be in here" and gets up and seems mad. You cannot talk to him at that point. I used the Viola bug fix (I added below) where I res Viola, and I was able to finish that part of the quest (despite having never sold the amulet). I will look to see if Calixto remains locked in his house. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 07:29 on 24 December 2011
Looking at my old response in this thread, I realize it is time for us to figure out why these bugs happen, not just if they happen. Over the next few days, I'll try and read through this entire talk page and get all the unresolved bugs written down. Once I'm done I'll archive most of this talk page to avoid confusion - feel free top start a new "unresolved bugs" topic at the bottom of this page if you can; it's easier to keep track that way, and easier for others to help out. --Krusty 07:37, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Figured out a couple more things. (1) After having talked to Viola (after she disappeared and had to be res'd), reported the mage to the steward, and finishing this part of the quest without selling the amulet, Calixto does remain locked in his house. However, if you wait next to his house until 5pm he comes out in order to go to the inn to eat. You can then talk to him, but he says nothing of consequence and you can't sell the amulet to him (I assume because the quest is now complete). (2) However, I went back and reloaded to before I res'd Viola, but at a point after she had disappeared. If I can find Calixto at this stage then I can ask him to buy the amulet ("About that amulet..."). However, he does go and lock himself in his house, despite the quest being at a stage where you are supposed to be able to talk to him. Again, if I wait till 5pm he comes out. In addition, if I refuse to sell the amulet the quest marker disappears from Calixto, but I can reactivate the quest marker on Calixto by going back to the Jarl's steward and asking him about the amulet again. (3) I can sell the amulet to Calixto, then res Viola, and then finish the quest. So it does not seem to matter whether I sell the amulet or not, the real hang-up on the quest was Viola disappearing. Is it possible that the quest is scripted to have Calixto hide in his house on purpose after the amulet is brought to him, in the sense that he is now worried about being discovered? Note that I have not progressed far enough yet to find out whether the new (or 2nd?) murders happen - I've only gotten to the point of reporting the mage to the Jarl's steward. Peace. -- 24, Dec 2011

Viola in unreachable place?

I've reached the point to talk to Viola, and according to quest markers she's somewhere *outdoors* at Candlehearth. Checking indoors indicated that she was outdoors, going outdoors gave her a 'nearby' marker but it was in the middle of the Candlehearth building. I circled around a few times and wasn't able to find her. She seems to have clipped into the building. Will probably have to use the noclip code to find her. :( Edit: Found her body under the ground under the inn. She was dead, something had killed her. Potentially me in the past. So much for that quest... :)

this happened to me. I reloaded a save from before I returned her stolen ring and that fixed it :) 23:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

  • Same here. It worked fine for me to 'tcl' to get to her, select her, do 'resurrect 1', move back out and 'moveto player', turn clipping back on, then 'moveto player' again to get her on the ground. She'll spin around like a top, but you can talk to her and progress the quest normally. Do 'moveto player' from a few more places and it'll reduce the spinning. (I would add this as a bug, since it's happened to multiple people in the same way (so it isn't just a fluke), but the last bug I tried to add to the page was immediately deleted. Someone else can do it.) Thwgatrostys 02:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Hjerim workaround

Ok, so I couldn't do the Blood on the Ice quest, not sure why but it was broke. But, straight to the point. I wanted Hjerim. By trying multiple things I found here, and other places, I managed to unlock the house, and am able to purchase decorations from the Jarls steward, house is unlocked. So far so good. This is what I did.

First buy the house, you must have 12,000 gold on you for it to work.

setstage 000A7B33 10

Second, I dont think this did anything, but this is what I did, so try it. lol. What I did was I forced the dialog to get the decorations. What I did was, I walked up to the steward and had my crosshair hovering over him. Went into console and put...

say 000E67B8 say 000E67B6 say 000E67BA say 000E67B5 say 000E67B4 say 000E67B9 say 000F726A

That didn't do anything but give me back a bunch of crap about faction and quest stuff. So then I thought, hey I didn't finish BOTI yet... So, I entered...

completequest MS11

Once I did that I talked to the steward, still no decorations. So I went back to the console and I entered in a nerd rage.

say 000F726A say 000F726A say 000F726A say 000E67B9

Then, I talked to the steward. Guess what? I can buy decorations! and they work!! hahahahaha. Just make sure you clean up the blood first.

Some other things I tried was resetting the at with ResetAI on that Wicked chick and Calixco but that didnt work either. Im stocked this works for now. I can finally continue on with my life in Skyrim.

Brought to you by: Vitalsine

Thanks Vitalsine, this helped me a lot; however, I'm having a few issues following this route. Although I do get Hjerim and all of the upgrades, I cannot get the blood out of Hjerim. I have selected the option several times, but it never removes the blood, overturned chairs, cobwebs, etc. Is there a console command to force this to work? I'll keep working on this in the meantime.


Still no luck cleaning the blood out. I went through and "MarkForDelete" all the junk, and that worked ok. Just have to be very careful. Sorry I didn't mention this before, I totally forgot to include that the murder scene cannot be cleaned. It seems, if you use the 'say 000F726A' before completing the quests it gives you this weird answer about a quest not being done. So, somewhere along the lines, there is another quest we need to 'complete'. We just need to find the code out.


FYI, I've found that the "say" commands were unnecessary. Here is all I did:

setstage a7b33 10

completequest ms11

completequest ms11b

And that was enough. I'm thinking maybe the "ms11b" quest helped me with that. I still had to "MarkForDelete" all the extra stuff still in the house, but I was able to become Thane as well as purchase the decorations and "remove the murderer's mess", which removed the blood.



I stole the Hjerim key from Nova, went into house and approached the cupboard having a bunch of papers. At first the tooltip hinted an Investigate action with an InvestigationTarget target. Pressing the action key had no response. After looking around a bit I could finally take some flyers and the amulet and investigate the real target.

I have the same problem and I still haven't been able to trigger the quest.

I have this too and regardless of the fact that ive picked up the butchers journals and all the fliers the quest still will not trigger.

I read that if you take the Butcher's Journal (the one in Calixto's chest) the quest is simply blocked, that may be the reason why. If anyone never took Calixto's Journal and still got that InvestigationTarget investigate glitch and can't trigger the quest, it would be interesting to let us know as it would prove it's actually not related.-- 16:02, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
wasn't related for me. breaking into Hjerim was the first workaround I tried - got the Investigate InvestigationTarget glitch. AFTER entering Hjerim failed to kick the quest, I went to calixto's curiosties to see if I could find something - picked the chest up in the loft and found the journal. something to note tho - I SQV'd the quest to see what I could see - turns out the entire quest is disabled for me. anybody know how to "enable" a quest? I've got the full list of Gamebryo commands and I'm not seeing anything promising. 04:16, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Jarleif glitch?

I don't remember how I started this quest but I definitely haven't purchased a home here yet. Anyway, I'm doing the mission, all is well except one of the tasks is "Get assistance from the Jarleif" except I have talked to him multiple times and he never says anything related to the quest. The white arrow is still over his head, directing me to talk to him. Has this happened to anyone else? Any ideas on how to fix this?

I have this problem too (xbox), no idea how to fix it. Seems like this whole quest is very buggy.
Confirmed on PS3 aswell. I haven't been able to progress any further.
Confirmed on PC too. Even with the patch 1.3
PS3: Had a similar issue, turns out that comes at the end. Just examine the murder scene by following the blood to Hjerim, and progress with the quest. Completed it with no issue.
Jorleif is a bit bugged, but nothing quest-breaking. He is only really useful at the beginning of the quest when he tasks you with investigating the murder; otherwise, you can go to any guard and get the same help. And no, even if the Objective to ask him for clues never gets completed, the quest will. --Krusty 08:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Mistake in Bugs Section?

Selling the Strange Amulet to Calixto before speaking to Wuunferth prevents the latter from being spoken to about it. Therefore, it is advised that you only sell the amulet after confronting Wuunferth.

I didn't have this issue; I sold the Strange Amulet to Calixto and the quest progressed fine. I had the same dialogue without the Strange Amulet that I had with it. Anyone else experienced this so that it can be changed?--Kuribattaraya 13:25, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed on xbox.

Moved to talk page

  • Certain choices made during the Dark Brotherhood questline may prevent this quest from progressing properly.

- Removed this from the main article, as it doesn't make sense to list it without giving examples of what some of those choices might be. 19:25, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Strange Amulet.... I found the strange amulet on the cupboard, however Viola still tells me to look on the cupboard. I spoke to Calixto and didnt sell, THEN to the mage and had no option??? so i went back and sold it to Calixto and nothing has happened :/ This is the second quest now that i havnt been able to do due to problems and really annoys me!

        Blood on the Ice

If Blood on the ice didnt trigger for you, but you just want the house. then there is an easy way to get it. In the quest you get the key from some shatter-shield woman. but if it doesnt trigger then the option never appears. This is what you do,


Kill Viola whats-her-face (usually walks around in the courtyard)


Break into house shatter-shield at night and go to the top floor, there is a woman laying in the floor next to a bed to the right of the staircase, this is the shatter-shield woman you got the key from, search her body and close by to find the farewell letter and the key to the house.

Courtesy of AsaltineCracker (360) aka senti-mentel (ps3)

Possible cause for the quest not triggering

It really bugged me that I couldn't do this quest. So, for the hell of it, I created a new character, got to Windhelm and again nothing happened... After that I got frustrated and made another character, but this time i didn't use the save after the intro which takes me directly to the creation menu but started a new game. And voila, suddenly the quest triggered the 4th time I entered Windhelm. I wasn't quite happy with my choice for the stormcloaks on this character, so I rerolled by using the savegame after the intro, hoping the quest would work now as well. And voila, the quest won't trigger AGAIN! So if you start a new character and want to make Blood on the Ice working you might have to start all over again. Tried it one more time earlier today, again with a completely new game and the quest triggered as it's supposed to. So that might be a reason, correct me if not. Hope it helps — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 21:50 on 29 November 2011

This has been bugging me as well. I was able to find two save points of my characters, inbetween which the bug must have taken effect. After wasting a lot of time trying to reproduce every quest stage I came up with this: sqv ms11kicker shows some variables that might be related to triggering the event. Two seem rather interesting: GameDaysPassed and MS11EnteringWindhelmCount. Both my save games had MS11EnteringWindhelmCount set to 3, but one had GameDaysPassed set to ~240 (working), the other ~250 (bugged).
After a lot of tryouts, I'm convinced that
- the event triggers when MS11EnteringWindhelmCount is at least 3 (4 after entering) -> already known
- the event only triggers if GameDaysPassed is below 245 when entering
By changing GameDaysPassed ("set GameDaysPassed to xxx") I was able to control whether the event would be triggered or not in both of my save games.
However, once you have entered Windhelm (the 4th?) time with more than 245 days, you can't fix it that way (even after setting MS11EnteringWindhelmCount to 3). Not sure why, the relevant quest states seem to be left unchanged. So this doesn't really help fixing the problem, unfortunately.
Other than that I found out that:
- if the event can still be triggered, you can start the quest by picking up items inside Hjerim (Requires Key)
- if the event is already triggered, you can start the quest by entering Hjerim (Master Lock)
- if the event can't be triggered anymore, none of the above will start the quest (Hjerim Requires Key)
Confirmation on that. I can't trigger the event on a save with more than 245 gamedays passed, although the quest is, according to sqv ms11preessentializing, still able to be triggered. All important actors of the quest are still alive, as well. Resetting their AI didn't help, either. Setting back the enteringwindhelmcount to 3 and the gamedayspassed to 240 doesn't trigger the effect, unfortunately, as explained above, since I am certain of having entered Windhelm with more than 245 gamedays played at least once.
I was able to trigger the event on an earlier save file though, not having had more than 245 gamedays passed and not having progressed through the imperial quest line so much.
I was unable to trigger the quest by taking items from Hjerim. My GameDaysPassed is only 108 (but 111 by the script counter); EnteringWindhelmCount is 45. I tried lowering this to 3 (and 4), but was still unable to trigger the quest or the graveside murder.
Same. I obtained the key and both books from Hjerim. My gamedayspassed is 145 and enteringwindhelmcount is 22. Could not force the quest to start by the above methods.
This seems to have been fixed anyways.
-- — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 02:34 on 1 December 2011

Interesting fact

I'm playing too with a savegame loaded after the intro and encounter too the problem that blood and ice is not triggering (doesn't matter which savegame I choose. Tried a few where I have no quest finished from the civil war quest line. Tried one where I finished the civil war quest line for the empire and tried one where I was pretty advanced for the stormcloacks). Since I assume that many people out there made a savegame after the intro to fast forward the character creation (in case they didn't like their first character they created) it makes sense that so many people encounter the blood and ice bug. It would be interessting if the people who doesn't encounter the problem that blood and ice not triggering know whether they play with a character that hast started all over from the beginning, including the intro. Or the opposite way, who plays whith a savegame after the intro is encountering the bug? (This might be the better question, since poeple with no problems don't read much about this issue I guess) -- 13:13, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

According to the Game Guide,the quest will start after entering (and leaving) town four times. I've done some tests and it is true. Don't know what happens if you purchase the house first (can you even do that without triggering the quest, and if yes, how?). Can't really be bothered with the 245-day limit, even if it worth mentioning somewhere. --Krusty 13:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

On that note, i was able to purchase the house in windhelm before blood and ice was over. I just stumbled on the murder scene and had started the investigation, then went to speak to the jarl just for i dont know why(lol). Afterward i spoke to the steward and was able to puschase a house in windhelm, it said 12000 but i didnt know how much i had on me at the time, knowing i had a lot i just said sure ill take it. I was able to purchase the house for 9300 or so, witnesses in the (real life) room as surprised as i was. Then i went to check it out to make sure, and i was able to walk into the house. It was mine, but no housecarl. Then i went on a mission for loot to get it decorated, without paying the jarl another visit i went to my house in whiterun. Took all of my gems and a couple other expensive items i had saved, cleaned out the vendors in whiterun, then riften, and finaly a little back in windhelm. Now i went to decorate, spoke to steward and the option was not available. Tried everything from running back to the house, to finishing my stormcloak quest, then i got the housecarl after talking to jarl, now he is there being as ginger as ever sitting in the stangely lighted, empty, semi-wannabe nice house that cant be decorated. Left windhelm one time entirely once realized that it couldnt be decorated to see if that would work, nothing, then said forget it and have been playing a lot since. i check back regularly, Ulfric and the steward remain the same, no difference in dialog, no option to decorate. So i searched for fixes, and then realised it had to do with blood on the ice, checked quest log and it has the quest listed, lights up the crime scene and the steward, but no people at crime scene and still no dialog from steward. Hope this helps i guess! This was all on a PC version. -kosher

   P.S. good job on figuring out the stuff above all of this now seamingly meaningless long-winded explanation of my experience with the infamous pain in the ass blood on the ice glitch.

I found a new factor that cause the quest not be triggering. That is The Companions's Quest: Take Up Arms. Once "Take Up Arms" finished, no crime scene in Windhelm. What I tried was use the code "set MS11EnteringWindhelmCount to 6", and after each object of that quest, I quicksave and fasttravel to Windhelm. Before the quest finish, every tries was success. I do this experiment in the same character but different process of the game(before and after the main quest). The only thing I didn't try is different character. Also, I didn't try to break in Hjerim before the crime scene. So, right now, I want to see if I can go back to unfinish "Take Up Arms". -- Kijin — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 05:32 on 13 December 2011

Sorry, but I wrote the entire article using a save after Take Up Arms was completed, although I'd admit the save had never set foot in Windhelm. I just used a bit of patience and followed the 4-day rule, then the quest triggered. I'll see if I can run some tests again at some point, even if I really think the CK is worth waiting for - just to get some better answers and maybe even a completely reliable technique. --Krusty 06:58, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I was stuck, the quest arrow pointed to Viola but she had no dialogue options. Here's what fixed it

In order to go into dialogue with Viola you need four items in your inventory: the strange amulet, the two butcher journals, and the "Beware of the Butcher" notice. I didn't bother taking the notice with me so I got stuck and very frustrated, but this seems to have fixed it. Very buggy quest in general though.

Condition of murder scene trigger and possible to missed the scene?

I think condition of murder scene trigger is MS11EnteringWindhelmCount and time of the day.

  • MS11EnteringWindhelmCount has to be over/at 4 however (not sure if it is intended or not) boundary of city is not well defined. For instance 2nd bridge after Anga's mill triggers MS11EnteringWindhelmCount and Windhdlm Stable triggers another MS11EnteringWindhelmCount, but entering the gate does not trigger MS11EnteringWindhelmCount. Thus exiting and re-etnring through gate does not count as entering Windhelm.
  • Murder Scene does not occur during day. From same quick save (player was at Winterhold, and MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 3), was not able to trigger the scene at ~3:00pm however was able to trigger ~11:00pm.
I think there are couple of condition to trigger the murder scene.
  • I do not think player actually have to enter the city 4 times to trigger. I was able to trigger the scene on my 2nd entry. My MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 7 even before my first entry of the city. At Anga's Mill MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 0. Followed the main road and went straight to Gate of Windhelm(before the entry) and my MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was at 3.
Retry From Anga's mill MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 0 and after crossing the bridge MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 1, Windhelm stable MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 2. Entering Windhelm, still 2. Exit and re-enter and still 2. 3rd and 4th still at 2. Scene is not triggered.
  • The scene does not get triggered during days. From 1st entry of Windhelm, fast travel to Solitude and rested 24hrs. Fast travel back to Windhelm and was not able to trigger the scene. After bit more load and save found the trigger also related to time of day.
~2:30pm did not triggered
~5:30pm did not triggered
~9:30pm triggered
~11:30pm triggered
~next day 3:00pm did not triggered
  • Fast travel to Markarth before rest and back to Solitude and repeated the above resulted same, thus number of visited city was not one of trigger.
  • I was able to trigger the scene without talking to any NPC.
  • Before the scene, player may have to be out of city/hold for awhile. Fast travel to Riften and back to Windhelm for 2nd entry, did not tirgger the scene however Solitude/Markarth triggered the scene.(not sure if it is relate to day/night or time spent on travel)
May be it is possible to miss the scene and npc gets resetted for whatever reason then player cannot get start the quest normal way.
It's not that complicated - enter and exit the city four times and the quest will trigger. Just stay focused and get to the graveyard at time. :D --Krusty 01:48, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
It was trigger for me 2nd time and some time was able to avoid the scene more than couple. at 1:40pm, 4th entry does not triggered the event.
No it wasn't - it's programmed and you've entered the city two times before. Sorry, but that's the way it is. -- Krusty 01:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
No. Refer to other posts on the subject - "entering windhelm" count does not necessarily refer to passing through the gate or fast traveling to the city and it is possible to have the count increase multiple times merely while in the vicinity of the city and without entering it. It may be tied to the loading/unloading of one or more cells so that moving around in proximity of the city gates will trigger the count. ( 19:33, 3 December 2011 (UTC))
Well I took you advice and tried. Went in and out of city more than 6 times and still did not triggered the event. Rested until 10pm before the gate and entered for 7th did not triggered. Load from 6th and went to Riften and came back (around 8:50am) did not triggered event however rested in Riften for 13 hours to make 10pmish triggered the event.

() I don't think you are meant to visit the town at all before initiating the quest. It's probably a bug, but please load an earlier save and see if you can trigger it with the 4 day method. Oh, and you have nothing to do in Riften! ;)--Krusty 02:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

It is already an old save(only finished like less than 10quests including radiants). I was hoping if someone with new started game can confirm this. My later save, triggered the scene as soon as I entered the Windhelm FIRST TIME!!!! but again does not trigger if I go during the day. May be it has do to something with npc not busy doing something else. (never visited Windhelm/dock except stable and farms; thus cannot fast travel to the city itself and also triggers that initial argument btw 2 nords and a dark elf as soon as enter; however MS11EnteringWindhelmCount is 7 I think because of Main quest and earlier visit of stable)
Oh, and beside I am trying not to trigger it!!lol
When the quest didn't normally trigger for me I just broke into the Shatter-Shields house at night and stole a key from Tova Shatter-Shield and went into Hjerim, After taking the beware the butcher journal and pamphlets the quest activated.
If the original trigger doesn't work then you can bypass the bug using this. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 23:05 on 3 December 2011 (UTC)
The last one sounds as a pretty good "cheat" in case of emergency and should work for all versions; still, figuring out how to complete the "entire" quest - and trigger the first murder - would be incredibly useful. I'll try and go through all the above information (well, the tests that worked that is), and see if I can come up with some kind of method that works every time. I will, however, work with a character that has never visited Windhelm before. I read somewhere that there's an upper limit (was it 254 visits?) - and that one sounds bad. Still, any inputs and/or tests are highly appreciated. --Krusty 01:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I stole the key, i took all items that could be taken in the house and the quest is not available. It doesn't work. I think it's because I finished the Sombrage quests before but not sure.
Same here. Stole the key, took the items, even found the hidden room and tried to investigate things, nothing happened. But I also took things out of Calixto's chest. Trying earlier saves and seeing if I can trigger it somehow. I also completed siding with the stormcloaks, could finishing the war possibly have an effect on this quest? Or possibly going too far in the war quest? PS3. Wolfeh 03:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Tried earlier saves, which I still had completed the war quest at that time, and nothing... I tried every possible solution, even completing the Dark Brotherhood quest where you kill the Shatter Shield's other daughter and the mother kills herself. So frustrating! I even tried drawing the bar maid out by attacking her and then yielding, which Calixto seemed like he was going to kill her but once she went inside he stopped. It's quite hard to keep her outside, and I'm not sure how I can or if he even will kill her when I finally do (I'm thinking of just constantly talking to her until he kills her or doesn't), but still looking for more solutions. Wolfeh 12:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Still nothing. Also took everything from the Hjerim, tried talking to viola afterwords, traveling from the mill to windhelm, fast traveling, etc. etc. Nothing triggers the quest. Wolfeh 20:32, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Dark Brotherhood Interference

Started the quest before doing the Dark Brotherhood questline.

Completed the quest where the contact is Muiri, and we have to kill her ex-lover, and optionally one of the Shatter-shield daughters. In killing the daughter, the mother commits suicide, which makes obtaining the key to Hjerim impossible.

But it does not make the quest impossible. I can't remember if its possible to pick the lock or not. If not, you'll have to wait until you do the civil war, which will let you purchase the house. --Affubalator 19:47, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
According to my observations, and for whatever reason, the lock changes from a 'key required' to an expert leveled lock the moment you start Blood on the Ice. --Krusty 20:03, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
The lock will only be expert level if your lockpick skill is low.-- 09:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I wish it were only expert. I've got 100 Lockpicking, the lock is Master, and I've wasted 50 picks already. Any other master lock I get between 3-5 picks. Also, I should note: The quest markers are still there (ie. "Examine the crime scene", "Speak to Jorleif"). The crime scene is gone (body is gone, Npcs have moved), the blood is still on the ground leading to Hjerim.
Oops, my bad. The lock is indeed Master-leveled. I suggest you just keep trying - and I'm interested in what you find! :) --Krusty 22:40, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Obtaining the dead mother's key to Hjerim is not impossible; I retrieved the key from her corpse (in-game) weeks after completing that contract. Unique NPC bodies rarely, if ever, disappear (ref: Astrid, Alva, Shatter-shield, many more). — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 08:54 on 15 December 2011 (UTC)

If the above is true, where can the body of Tova Shatter-Shield be found?

Tova's body will be lying beside her bed upstairs in the Clan Shatter-Shield House. She should have the key to Hjerim on her dead body (she did for me).

Quest not starting on XBOX and PS3

figured I would share this, as other people cant figure out how to trigger the quest. Themother (Tori Shatter-Shield I believe she is) has a key to Hjerim. Pickpocket from her to access the house and trigger the quest. Just remember to selk that amulet from the bottom shelf before advancing too far. And if you bugger up the house of curiosities by seeking a walkthrouh while the door is locked, break in mid day. Wake the guy up. He will yell, leave and reenter. -ed.

quest stuck bug

After I went to Jorleif and talked to him, it kept showing "gain assistance from Jorleif" as unfinished in my log and a quest marker keeps directing me to him. I did manage to continue though, but after talking to calixto corrum about the amulet, I can't confront the court mage, and my only quest marker is still pointing at jorleif. I didn't manage to find Viola at all. I checked all of windhelm over and over again, went into her house dozens of times, checked the in a few times too, but she seems to have vanished... -- 18:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I just wanted to buy the Windhelm house when I found out about the quest. I've literally found everything I need to pick up for this quest but haven't been able to trigger the initial murder scene. I got the key to the house from a dead woman I found inside the house across the street from Viola's. She is clearly the mother of the other two girls killed before the waitress(who still isn't dead by the way). I have a useless Misc. quest to buy a house in Windhelm that just points at Jarleif who won't sell the house due to some 'unpleasentries'. Please contact me personally if you can help. Even if you just copy and paste what you write on the page, it'll be much appreciated. Sorry meant to put that on the "Quest not Triggering on Xbox or Playstation"

Possible bug, need confirmation

This is something my brother attempted to describe to me, so I do not have first hand experience with this. Basically, my brother wanted to buy the house in Windhelm, so he did the Stormcloak missions until it told him he could. He bought the house, then went to check it out before buying the decorations (or possibly it didn't let him?), upon entering, he was told to find the clues. He did not have the quest, and it was not added when he triggered this. But he also could not get the quest from the guard, because he'd already hit a trigger halfway through the quest. If anybody out there on PC is willing to test, or if anybody on console happens to have a save game that meets the conditions, this is something that needs some testing/confirmation. --Affubalator 20:59, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Key solution not guaranteed

A few people have mentioned stealing the Hjerim key off of Tova Shatter-Shield's body and looking around in Hjerim. I did this, and the quest did not trigger and I am still unable to buy the house, even though Ulfric said I could. If anyone knows a fix for this, on Xbox, I would appreciate it. I've already tried leaving and entering the city multiple times and entering the city at night. Midnightq2 01:49, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

calixto in hjerim with quest marker

Calixto is in Hjerim (purchased) with the quest marker. Problem is he keeps on attacking me and there is no dialogue options available. Any help would be appreciated.

   - I had this problem. Just solved it.  Here's what I did (I call it "Out of sight, out of mind").: 
       1. I completed the quest using the setstage command.
       2. I added calixto to the player faction using "addtofaction 5a1a4 1"
       3. I yielded in so he ran back to his little room and went catatonic
       4. I walked up to him and used "disable" --Maelstrom88 07:51, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Quest already running

When typing in: sqv ms11preessentializing At the "Quest State" part of the info it says that the quest is enabled and already running for me. But i never had the Graveyard scene or started it any other way. (not in my log either) Maybe this is why it can't be started? Anyone else has this?

I DID complete it on my first playthrough and it says enabled and running even when i create a new character.

-- 17:09, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Yep, this quest is always running until you trigger the graveyard scene (or start the quest in Hjerim). The quests you can see in your journal are not directly related to the internal quests. MS11 is the quest you want to start (starts with graveyard scene and gives you the journal entry at a certain stage), but as far as I know, there's no way to do that using the console if you can't trigger the scene in the first place. -- 00:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah Same thing for me. I have a question though regardng how to view your day count, how to set your windhelm count to something.
- This quest is supposed to be running, from the start of the game. It uses the info from the quest MS11Kicker (that tracks how many times you have entered Windhelm, time of day, game days passed etc). Essentially when you trigger entering Windhelm on the 4th or more time (MS11EnteringWindhelmCount >= 4), if the time of day is in the correct range (Night time, usually past 9pm or so), then the MS11PreEssentializing Quest will start the MS11 quest for you (it will show enabled), and it will end itself (MS11PreEssentializing will show disabled). What this does is spawn the murdered body in the cemetary. Note: Since you can trigger "entering windhelm" without actually going inside the city proper (eg. fast travel to the stables), after this happens, you can actually enter the city at any time of day and investigate the murder/start the quest. When MS11 is enabled, it will be at stage 1 (not in journal yet).
-For some reason, when the quest gets bugged and won't start, it seems MS11PreEssentializing will not enable MS11, regardless if all the prerequisites of MS11Kicker are met. There must be some additional factor/influence that is preventing some extra condition from being true. (I have read elsewhere that Calixo can become stuck/glitched, if you ever pick his lock before triggering the quest. I have yet to confirm that though. — Unsigned comment by Aggies11 (talkcontribs) at 07:23 on 14 December 2011
That's the best explanation about triggering (or not triggering) the quest I've heard so far. You should shorten it a bit and add it as a note on the main article. --Krusty 07:31, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Confirming all you said. I also noticed that when the quest is bugged (ie not triggering), you can't enable the graveyard corpse via "d2c9e.enable" anymore. If the quest is still able to trigger, d2c9e.enable will show the body. The same thing happens if you type "d2c9e.markfordelete" beforehand. And after doing so, you can't trigger the quest anymore either. I couldn't find a command to revert it though. So I did some save game editing, and was able to revert that change in my real save game, so that d2c9e.enable worked again. However, the quest still wouldn't trigger, even though "startquest ms11" showed some output (which wasn't the case before, so undeleting d2c9e did have some effect). So I'm thinking if the trigger fails once for some reason, there are multiple objects (like npcs) that get disposed of/changed so that the game always fails to start the quest afterwards. 14:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
I have two saves, one where it will work (lvl 18, day 27, entered 3), and one where it won't (lvl 19, day 32, entered 4). I can confirm that the body was deleted. (prid d2c9e shows normally in the first save, has [D] appended in the second save.) This would tend to indicate that the quest triggered, and then got cleaned up without me ever seeing it, and now won't restart. Furthermore, I can go to the save that works, d2c9e.MarkForDelete, and it will no longer work (with no output from startquest ms11 vs the 500+ getfaction, getissex, getisdead calls logged when it works). The two saves differ by about 4 hours realtime, and seem to be limited to finishing up mage college sidequests, then joining the stormcloaks (presumably where I triggered the quest to start, and immediately left to go kill ice wraiths) Now I guess we just have to identify what other objects are deleted and/or what triggered the cleanup.

Confusion on quest events

This may help those on the Xbox. We can't use the setstage commands... :(

I was not able to get the quest to trigger so I investigated without the quest markers. I found that the shatter shield lady killed herself and I took her key and suicide note. The only thing is that after leaving her house and walking to the main gate area, I see both her daughters on the way and they are still alive. After reading issues others had, I decided to try and skip the quest for the most part. The quest would not trigger and the amulet was not in the house. So I was afraid I would never get the house.

So anyway, I said screw it, finished the dark brotherhood(killing one sister, Nilsine), then murdered the other girl for the heck of it (Friga), and now it works. I have been able to get the house and everything works.

I don't know where the bug actually fixed itself, so someone may want to check it. I hope it can help, though I doubt this is a common bug.

P.S. After killing both daughters, I went back to the house, picked up the amulet and continued the quest from there. Also, this may only trigger if you killed viola for fun or during a dragon attack.

Erm, Friga doesn't even exist in the game (she is one of the previous victims of the serial killer and exist, to the best of my knowledge, only as a rumor), so that method is not really reliable. Also, Tova will not kill herself with Nilsine still alive, so unless we're talking an entirely different bug here (related to the DB quest), this sounds like fanfiction and is not useful, especially not for a simple search on how to start the quest. You're right about one thing, though - we can't really use console codes here, only a reliable method and an explanation of the game mechanics, so we have something to investigate. In short, if you want to help out, find a save before you arrived at Windhelm for the first time and see if you can trigger it. --Krusty 18:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I got through the first section of the quest and got to the very end of the second part of the Quest where it says "Catch the Murderer" which is impossible because it automatically updated saying I strolled the streets at night (which I didn't) so I didn't see the shop owner try and kill the next girl so all I see is him running to Hjerim, and even if he starts attacking me I can't kill him so I cannot finish the quest, maybe this will get fixed?

Xbox 360: Calixto won't die.

So the first stage of events were completed with ease. But when I returned back to Windhelm and noticed the second batch of murders it starts to get buggy. After talking with Unferth(sic) and getting the quest update to 'patrol the stone quarter at night' it automatically updates before I even leave the Palace of the Kings, saying I have already been there aNd now I have to 'Catch the Murderer'. Upon exiting the building, Calixto with a quest marker hovering above his head runs past headed to Hjerim. Any attack or intervention (that's if I can catch up to him) earns me a bounty. Once we enter Hjerim, He attacks but cannot be killed, merely crouching before he rises once more, and then starts to attack me. as its on the Xbox, no console commands. any help appreciated.

- I also have this problem and now he's stuck in my house

- I also have this problem where invincible Calixto is living in my house but worse still he's stealing my rare weapons to fight with and I can't get them back from him! I need to kill this clown. any progress on a fix for 360?

-Same problem here. It appears he has been set to important under some strange circumstance

time of murder

just thought I would post that I was walking over to the market at 7:30pm and he attempted to murder the girl with the market still full of people. So even though it says wait till night I dont think it has to be very late for it to trigger--Lord.Baal 19:30, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I ran some tests the other day, and you can actually just go straight to the market - you can also wait 48 hours if you want to. Calixto will be there, attempting his next murder. Annoying fact is that the guards will NOT leave the market if you go there during the day (which will most likely net you a bounty if you save the girl), so I decided to leave it out of the article, simply becuase it is meant to happen during the night - and to avoid even more "why-did-I-get-a-bounty"-questions. --Krusty 19:42, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Can't find Viola

I'm at the point where I've talked to Calixto and sold him the amulet. I'm now searching for Viola, but there is no quest marker to indicate her position. I spent the day roaming the streets and an evening wandering around Candlehearth Hall in the hopes of stumbling upon her, but no luck. I've tried talking to Jorleif, but there's no option to ask about the Butcher, as mentioned in the wiki article. If she's dead, I can't find her body, and even if I could, I'm on the xbox so I can't resurrect her. Does anyone else have this issue, on the xbox or otherwise? Or any suggestions on where/when I can find Viola, or get Jorleif to mention her? Obax 18:41, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


I have something similar on the pc. However, I CAN talk to Jorleif about the butcher, he says: "Have you been talking to Viola Giordano? She keeps posting those pamphlets, but someone keeps taking them down. Ask her about it if you want an earful". But Viola is nowhere to be found, and there is no quest marker to indicate where she is. I have left and entered the city several times, waited my (...) off and looked for her everywhere. My quest log says: Follow up on the clues from Hjerim. And: Get help from Jorleif. But Jorleif isn't helpful, Calixto just tells me he wants to buy the amulet and Viola seems to have disappeared, like I said before. Is it a bug or am I doing something wrong?

Could it be at all possible that shes dead? As detailed on the quest page . . . . --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 18:33, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


I have the exact same problem as the 2nd post above, and am on the pc. No Viola to talk to anywhere, she has disappeared. I'm quite early on, only 16th lvl, haven't done any Stormcloak or Imperial quest threads. I have replaced Viola's ring. Now found the solution, not sure why no one has recorded it here, since it is listed in other places:

On PC, open Console and type:

prid 0001B13C


resurrect 1


moveto player

Viola will appear next to you, you can talk to her, and continue with the quest. Talking to her allowed me to continue, even though I had not sold the Amulet to Calixto (apparently this is another bug). ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I have exact problem on ps3 so I cant use console commands and I would really like to finish this stupid fudging quest and get on with my life. Any ideas?


Further update on what I've tried, though it looks as if there might not be an answer and I'm SOL. I went into Viola's house to see if she was there, and waited for more than 24 hours (in 1 hour intervals) and she never appeared. I did the same outside her front door. The door was unlocked, due to my previous entry when planting the ring in her dresser, and remained unlocked (which I take to mean that she's not going in or out, as in my experience, unlocked doors will be locked again when the owner of the house goes in to, for example, sleep). I've give up on this quest for now, and have started a new character for interest's sake. I plan to do BOTI early in this new character's life, to see if I can figure out what went wrong in my original character's life. Obax 18:41, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Where's Tova?

Simple: I can't find Tova's body. I killed Nilsine as part of the DB questline, but I can't find the body (with the key) anywhere. I'm on the 360, so I can't use the console. Is there any workaround to this, or am I stuck waiting for Bethesda to patch this miserable quest? Oh, and I entered Windhelm at least a dozen times at night before Day 245, and nothing ever triggered. Jak Atackka 06:38, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm still not 100% certain on how long dead bodies will float around in the game, but chances are she is gone. She is not overly important to the quest though - important thing is that you somehow manage to trigger the quest. If you attempted it a dozen times, then it may be gone for unknown reasons - but alternatively, I'd try and break into Hjerim. If that is impossible (due to the lock being 'key reguired'), purchase the buggy place and see if that helps. --Krusty 07:16, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Breaking in at Calixto's

I moved these two contradictory bug descriptions here for now - either we have a bug, or we don't. Please share your experiences on this talk page.

If you pickpocket Calixto's key and open his chest before the quest is over it won't affect the questline at all.
Pc22.png Not necessarily true. Taking his incriminating copy of the Butcher's Journal makes him lock his house after gathering clues at Hjerim. If attempting to follow up on the amulet, even before speaking to Viola Giorando, Calixto's house will be locked. Entering with Calixto's key or picking the lock will result in him running the tresspassing NPC scripts and he cannot be talked to - thus you cannot sell the amulet to Calixto. No amount of waiting seems to resolve this. The rest of the quest can be completed successfully. The end result is taking his Butcher's Journal from Calixto's Chest can prevent you from being able to acquire the Necromancer's Amulet. If you wish to have the quest reward, do not steal from Calixto's Chest until he has been defeated.

--Krusty 20:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

In order to fix the issue of Calixto being stuck agroing you for trespassing go to the main city of the Hold(district) you're in and pickpocket a guard and get caught. Pay the fine, and go back to the NPC. No more agro! — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 16:52 on 24 December 2011
The mom with the key is dead in her house

35. One Fix that worked

I had the problem where Wuunferth was in the jail, I had to patrol the Stone Quarter but the quest went straight to complete and then jumped to catch the murder. Calixto would run straight to Hjerim were I couldn't interact with him, kill him or do anything.

After searching I saw that the final victim was supposed to be Arivanya, but she had already been killed - she was the second victim after Wuunferth was arrested.

I used the old Fallout 3 console command

                                        prid 0001b144

then I spoke to Wuunferth in the jail (I had a save game prior to speaking to him in the jail). I got the message patrol the stone quarter and the quest continued. It took about 72 hours before Arivanya showed up in the market place. Calixto just stood there for 3 days waiting for her. I let him kill her to set the balance right, she was after all supposed to be dead.

Quest completed - Speak to Jorleif for reward.

Second murder never happened

After I accused the mage and he was put in jail, I wanted to finish the quest for good. I tried waiting outside the city walls for > 3 days, nothing. I tried waiting again, nothing. The second murder never happened.

Talking to the mage in the dungeon just offered destruction training.

What worked is reloading a safe and going directly to the mage to catch the real killer. Lost a few hours of play but at least this bug o rama quest was done.

This is on 360, patch 1.3.5

Eric7237cire 09:25, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Cant do anything with the BOTI quest, or Hjerim.

Basically, i finished the imperial questline, then i became a thane by helping the people around windhelm. I bought Hjerim, when i entered there was blood everywhere and i started the BOTI quest automatically. I sold the amulet to Calixto now i cant do anything with the quest, all it says is (Follow up the clues from Hjerim) There is also no description for the quest its just blank. What can i do im also on the PS3 version so i cant do any console commands. Also going back my save is waaay to far behind. Is there anyway to fix? i wasted 12000 septims ;(

There isn't a single part of this quest that isn't bugged in one way or another; I can't even get it started on the PC. As far as I know, there's not much to do but wait for patching. ThuumofReason 19:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
You can easily complete the quest without the quest markers, just follow the alkthrough - and if you were able to sell the amulet to Calixto, then there's hope. Make sure you have both Journals and the pamphlet from Hjerim and go see either Viola or Jorleif. --Krusty 19:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

The invincible Calixto!

Yet another bug tested negative - I have no idea why so many people can't kill Calixto (he shouldn't be marked as essential at any time), but this is certainly untrue:

If you leave Windhelm for a couple of days after that you put Wuunferth in prison and return you might find Arivanya dead in the Stone Quarter with a guard standing near. Talking to the guard reopens the quest and you are sent to talk to Wuunferth. After you talk to Wuunferth he wants you to patrol the Stone Quarter and that goal will be completed at the same time and when you meet Calixto you can't kill him. This is becuse Arivanya is the victim you are supposed to catch Calixto murdering at night. The solution to this is to resurrect Arivanya when you find her before you talk to the guard. Then you can complete the quest.

I just tested it (again) and Calixto will simply move on to another victim (already stated in the bugs section), and is easily killed both during and after the murder. If someone can go into detail about why Calixto can't be killed, please do so - but the above explanation is no good. Sorry. --Krusty 14:53, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


Everyone has come across bugs with this quest. Since Beth didn't QA the game enough, I vote for a "Proper way to acquire Hjerim" section of the article which could detail what to do, when and where... and be able to clean up the murderer's mess... compiled from all the tips on all the NPCs/quest/places pages. Currently, it seems to take many hours to do this right without having to invoke the console.

You're correct. As I just wrote in a post above, it is time to get our facts straight. We need to find the reason for the bugs, not just explain how to solve them. It will be an awful lot of work, but since I have saves where I can virtually walk through this entire quest with my eyes closed (not a single bug in sight), there must be something we can do, other than provide questionable console codes for PC users. I'll start listing what needs to be done for Blood on the Ice in the coming days. It is important to separate the quest and Hjerim at this point, though - so I'll suggest you do a similar thing over at Hjerim's talk page. Good luck! --Krusty 07:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi Krusty. Thanks for your agreement. I read your post above, but am still baffled by what to do here. Guess I still need to read every detail on the bugs of this quest, as I'm a newb to it still. I've bought Hjerim and finished "Blood On The Ice", then spoke to Calixto and watched Wuunferth go to his prison cell, then bought all house items except the Living Room (as per comments) .. but the murderer's mess still remains. I've reloaded from old saves and done this a few times over. Going to restore yet again from an old save and try to document what I do, for this master How-To document on it. Anyone with something to add, please do so. Thinking that this page, and the Hjerim page, need to be more closely linked together.
Yeah, it seems like a neverending wave of bugs, but here is my limited knowledge on Hjerim:
  • Not available for purchase until you have initiated Blood on the Ice. By 'initiated' I don't mean started it -but you must meet the requirements. This seems okay to me, but why the Hjerim lock changes when Blood on the Ice is initiated remains a mystery. If you, for whatever reason, managed to buy the house from Jorleif, please exit the town and enter it again at night and see if you can get the graveyard sequence to appear.
  • I read somewhere that you, after purchasing the cleanup for Hjerim, has to go enter the house for the cleanup to actually work. THEN go back and purchase the other upgrades. If you purchase more than the cleanup, the house will bug and the blood remain.
That was my limited knowledge on Hjerim. --Krusty 10:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Quest Trigger

I think I found the problem. It's the Imperial Questline, if you have already finished, the quest won't trigger and the body will be marked as deleted "[D]" and cannot be enabled again. But if you are doing the Stormcloacks questline the body will show up the graveyard, the quest will trigger and will appear in your journal. Gamesbeaten1 14:10, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Invincible Calixto

I have the PS3 version of the game, an Calixto is bugged inside Hjerim. I had no troubles with the quest until I went and talked to Wuunferth in jail. I exited the palace and ran into Calixto, by the Candlehearth Inn and this occurred during the middle of the day. Which completed the objective patrol the streets of the stone quarter at night and gave me the new objective catch the murderer. Calixto then ran to Hjerim and now I can't kill him, he doesn't leave Hjerim, and I can't interact with him.


I have a theory to why the weapon racks in the house do not work sometimes, I believe that it is a result of not investigating all points before purchasing the upgrades that add the racks. I am in the process of testing this theory and I will write back when I have confirmed/disproved it.--Kip 28 December 2011 (UTC)

The Butcher's Journals

When I have tried reading Journal 1, it goes through the animation of reading an Elder Scroll, rather than open the journal. Journal 2 reads fine, though. I know it's not the Scroll I was reading, because I sold it to the Orc in the College after completing the Main Quest and Discerning the Transmudane. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon, or am I just having on of those strange one-off's that you typically find within the series, or is there a bug I accidentally triggered? ESTEC 21:51, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I think it is just a strange once-off glitch, I experienced practically every glitch possible for that quest but never encountered that before. At least it didn't break the quest.RIM 22:15, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Tova is gone!

I had the same problem:

Killed Nilsine as part of the DB quest just before the BOTI quest started. Now, I've been told to get the key to Hjerim from Tova, but she is nowhere. The quest arrow points me into the Shattershield house, which I was able to get into using Nilsine's key, but Tova's body is not there. The quest arrow points to an empty space in the foyer.

It is mentioned in the bugs section. Your only hope is to pick the Hjerim lock and follow the walkthrough from there. It is possible you will not receive a quest update, but please let me know if you do. --Krusty 23:06, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Susanna, third victim

I just talked to the guard to start this quest and was told shes the third victim not fourth like the page states.-- 06:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Yup, there's a bit of contradicted opinions about the body count, especially if you speak with the Windhelm people who has the slayings as a normal topic. I did note it down but, in the end, decided we had more than enough bugs and troubles with this quest for it to be really worth mentioning. Still, the info is probably okay to add as a note, so feel free. Just make sure to state a list of NPCs (or at least an example) who will provide the wrong info. --Krusty 07:10, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

The long console fix

This console fix is too long (and the circumstances too rare) to have floating around on the article, so I moved it here for now:

** Pc22.png To make the guard involved visible again, manipulate the enable parents for the original town guards and the Imperial guard replacers. use the console commands prid 77e0c followed by disable (the Legion guard enable parent, to disable them so there's no potential for Legion/Stormcloak scuffles), then prid 45c10 followed by enable (the enable parent for the original Stormcloak-aligned town guard). The guard involved may be dead, so use the console to resurrect him (prid 45c25 then resurrect). Ignore all the dead town guard bodies littered about town. Once the quest is complete, simply reverse the enable parents: Re-enable the Legion and re-disable the Stormcloaks.

--Krusty 07:19, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Prev: None Up: Skyrim talk:Blood on the Ice Next: Archive 2