Skyrim talk:Forgotten Vale

The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995
Jump to: navigation, search

Inner Sanctum Link[edit]

FYI it redirects to the temple of Dibella. Not sure what we want to use in place for names, etc. — Unsigned comment by PrometheusTheElf (talkcontribs) at 02:34 on 3 July 2012

I've removed the link for now, since a page hasn't been created yet for this particular Inner Sanctum, and I can't find a proper location entry for it in CSlist . ABCface 03:57, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

How to find the Paragon Socket[edit]

I was going to ask for further clarification on the paragon socket, but tried one more time, and I got it. For others, here is how to find it. If you'd like to clean this up and add it to the main page, please be my guest.

Pass through the Portal of Resolution. Then, head east by the compass. This will look like you're going nowhere...it'll take you off a cliff and into a river. Cross the river, headed east up a narrow trail. You will climb up a hill and see a large waterfall ahead of you and to your left. Directly below and in front of you, across the waterfall's landing zone, you may see a frost giant under an ice overhang. He will be at nearly bow's limit. Take him out then, if you can. Edge forward straight towards and you will slide down a short cliff and either fall onto or see a small, ancient ruin, no more than a dais and a few broken columns. The paragon socket is directly in front of the tallest still-standing column. The frost giant you just killed will have the Sapphire Paragon. His lair contains a malachite ore vein and snowberries.

If you leave the site of the paragon and head south down the mountain, hugging the right, you will come on some stone steps downward. Standing on the steps you should see another frost giant below you. He has the Amethyst Paragon.Oshaugm 17:50, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for this. The direction given ("on the opposite side of the valley") is impossible to follow; it's far too vague. Your directions could usefully be added to the main page, it seems to me. Wordmama (talk) 00:30, 30 March 2014 (GMT)

Follower Bug in Glacial Crevice[edit]

Encountered this bug while exploring the glacial crevice with Serana as my follower. I told her to wait while I dove into the "river" at the bottom of the crevice. Upon meeting up with her again, there was no option to tell her to resume following me. And since you're in the middle of a dungeon sequence, you cannot dismiss her and have her rejoin you. Required reloading a previous save to fix. Did not occur in any other part of the Forgotten Vale. SonGoharotto 13:40, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Not Visible on Map?[edit]

The page includes a link for View on Map, but it doesn't show a particular location, merely display the map in its entirety (zoomed right out). Is there a more suitable location to point to/add a marker for? I have no idea how to do it. Haravikk (talk) 18:17, 11 November 2012 (GMT)

Paragon Question[edit]

Do you lose the paragons after using them? — Unsigned comment by 184.88.12.130 (talk) at 21:26 on 23 November 2012

No, they remain in the portal until you use a different paragon, but you can activate it to remove them any time you choose. — ABCface 02:25, 24 November 2012 (GMT)

Word Wall[edit]

It's probably worth mentioning in the article that the word wall in this zone looks nothing like any other word wall previously encountered. It looks like a big boulder that just happens to have a single glowing word on it, and it's easily overlooked as just another piece of the scenery. -Trogdor — Unsigned comment by 99.141.27.127 (talk) at 20:58 on 7 January 2013 (GMT)

Chest under the lake[edit]

There is a chest at the bottom of the icy lake, which has crushed a rather unhappy looking skeleton. It is a ways south from the Word Wall. -ἥρμφερ — Unsigned comment by 132.177.236.101 (talk) at 08:30 on 8 April 2013 (GMT)

Strange Attack[edit]

I don't know if this has anything to do with Forgotten Vale bugs but it was weird.

Right after I filled the ewer from the Wayshrine of Learning, I turned to go and Suvaris Atheron, the Windhelm Dunmer lady who's getting harrassed when you first enter Windhelm, came out of nowhere and attacked me. I had my back turned but it looked like she came out of the wayshrine (maybe one of its portals?).

Assumedly this is because I killed her brother Aval Atheron during the Volkihar radiant quest to frame the Dawnguard for murder. He was the target I chose, but I'd never talked to her and she wasn't around when I killed him. There was no note on her like when thugs come after you for stealing from NPCs and she didn't say anything besides, "You never should have come here!"

Again, I don't know if this is relevant to the Forgotten Vale page but it might be worth mentioning that NPCs can track you down and attack you even in the Vale. — Unsigned comment by 98.160.100.108 (talk) at 03:52 on 15 April 2013 (GMT)

"Entrance" Pog Needed[edit]

It would be nice if the map on the Forgotten Vale page had a pog to mark the place where you first enter the Vale. It took me a while of wandering and repeatedly referring back to the page to figure out where I actually was on the map. — Unsigned comment by 98.160.100.108 (talk) at 03:53 on 15 April 2013 (GMT)

Forgotten Vale Books Quest radiant?[edit]

Are you sure that the Forgotten Vale Books Quest is radiant? — Unsigned comment by 5.147.205.63 (talk) at 02:40 on 19 November 2013 (GMT)

I'm not entirely sure why that's marked as radiant, but I've asked the person who changed it to clarify. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:57, 21 November 2013 (GMT)
I can't figure out why I did that in the first place, I've gone ahead and removed that parameter. — ABCface 13:51, 21 November 2013 (GMT)

Province Error[edit]

The article mentions Skyrim as the location, but I believe it is in fact the province of High Rock. — Unsigned comment by 124.168.174.154 (talk) at 19:42 on 18 April 2014‎

It may seem like that, but the western border of Skyrim is largely mountains most of which are not accessible in the game.--Jimeee (talk) 19:57, 18 April 2014 (GMT)
(edit conflict) OP: What are you basing that on? Based on the map, it looks like it would be close, but I don't think we know how far into the water Skyrim's borders extend or if they have territories apart from the mainland (like Alaska in real life). Is there anything in-game that suggests it's in High Rock? I did a quick search and didn't come up with anything. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:05, 18 April 2014 (GMT)
Thanks for the response; The Nataly Dravarol maps of High Rock and Skyrim give an indication of the shape of the border. Jehanna occupies a section of land seemingly cut into an otherwise neat, straight border running northwards to the sea of ghosts. The UESP map, however shows the landscape probably dictates where the border lies, the terrain reflecting the lines on the Dravarol maps.
There are other maps which actually show FV over the border, and these can easily be found with a quick google image search, but the maps I've suggested above are the strongest case. I suspect that Darkfall cave runs under the border, quite possibly under the highland plateau which supports Jehanna and exits in the Forgotten vale, beyond not only the border itself, but very likely beyond any reasonable location for Jehanna.
Although the positions of borders are likely to be speculative to a great extent, Nataly should be a primary source, and I am unaware of any source stating The Vale is part of Skyrim. — Unsigned comment by 124.168.174.154 (talk) at 13:36 on 19 April 2014
Map location is a fine basis for the argument, but the Daggerfall map is over 200 years out of date at the time of Skyrim's map, enough time for a lot of changes, including the ownership of an island or two. While I can't recall any other source for it belonging to Skyrim than the map, I am equally unaware of any source that says it isn't, thus it falls to secondary logic to determine the outcome. While maps may show the location of a place to be within another border, they do not prove its ownership, there are many examples (particularly within Skyrim) of places falling just outside a border but belonging to a province/county/hold (though the USKP does its best to change most of them). The most common reasoning is a place's entrance (i.e. what claim does Daggerfall have if it can't enter the place). If it only re-emerged around the time of Skyrim it obviously couldn't have been on the Daggerfall map, but it is still on the Skyrim map, that is a map of Skyrim, not 'Skyrim and surrounding areas', thus the Skyrim map is the only evidence we have to its ownership. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 14:04, 19 April 2014 (GMT)

() The UESP map doesn't deal with political borders at all; it doesn't need to because it's there to show game territory. I don't think it has anything to say directly about where the borders lie, it simply gives us the most accurate locations for places and landmarks. It does suggest a natural boundary, though.

So the Dravarol maps seem to be the most legitimate authority for positions of borders or political control. Despite the gulf in time, they seem to agree, suggesting no recognized change. This shape agrees with natural boundaries we can see on the UESP map. Territorial control beyond those lines must be speculation based only on the name of the game map. My speculation is that the borders shown by the Dravarol maps are a more reliable source. — Unsigned comment by 124.168.174.154 (talk) at 14:45 on 19 April 2014

I'm talking about the in-game map, which has more legitimacy on the UESP than any concept art or even logic for that matter. The in-game map shows the Vale as part of Skyim, and unless there is concrete proof otherwise, it is a Skyrim locale, not a Daggerfall one. The Dravarol map leaves off such notable locations as the Volkihar castle, simply because it was created without it being in the game, so that map cannot actually be used as proof of its province as it was created before the location was known. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 14:53, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
Given that the in-game map does not deal with borders at all, what other reliable sources might be used? — Unsigned comment by 124.168.174.154 (talk) at 15:21 on 19 April 2014
I'm not sure that there is anything that'll prove it conclusively. Also, you're thinking of borders in the modern sense. There are clear lines on a map that decides what belongs to whom. If we assume that national borders work roughly akin to how ours did when we were at the same level of development, outlying areas like that are often pretty much a no-man's land that simply belongs to whoever can be bothered to go collect taxes or send troops there...if anyone can be bothered at all. Robin Hood  (talk) 15:45, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
I'm not basing my argument on my understanding of historical borders. I'm arguing against the article's contention that FV is in Skyrim. The only evidence used to refute my argument is the in-game map alone, although nowhere does it say what appears on the in-game map is necessarily in Skyrim. The contention is based on the fact that the game is called Skyrim, therefore all on the map must be part of Skyrim. I think it's clear that this isn't sound.
In the absence of evidence UESP.net considers to be primary, I can see the Dravarol maps being very reasonable secondary sources; ignoring the consistent in-game logic, the Dravarol maps were produced by the actual game developers and distributed with hard copies of the game. — Unsigned comment by 124.168.174.154 (talk) at 16:24 on 19 April 2014‎
It's entirely possible that you're correct, but if there isn't clear in-game evidence to support it, it's not appropriate for us to make guesses. Even on the Dravarol map, which I have a larger version of hanging on my wall, it's unclear if Forgotten Vale is within High Rock's borders or somewhere just outside of them. We need harder evidence than where it looks like it might be located. Even if it is located within what looks to be their borders, as Silencer and I have both said, there are numerous reasons why it might not actually be considered part of High Rock. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:52, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
If you look and compare all Skyrim/Tamriel maps and perspectives, you come to the conclusion that the F.V. is entirely in High Rock. See also this map e.g..
--80.108.153.176 12:57, 23 April 2015 (GMT)

() The point of this entire conversation was that by in-game maps alone we cannot verify if the Forgotten Vale is inside of Skyrim or not. Using maps that other people created with game locations marked cannot be trusted as fact--it's original research which is not used on this site. •WoahBro►talk 13:33, 23 April 2015 (GMT)

I spoke about all Skyrim/Tamriel maps, including the other ones made by Bethesda and Co.. If you compare any of these maps with the Skyrim topographical map, you can see clearly where the border of High Rock/Skyrim is. This can help you. It's due to several facts obvious that the F.V. is in the province of High Rock. --80.108.153.176 13:58, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
A while back I was ok with it being listed as in Skyrim. However, looking at some dialogue from the ferryman, he mentions Castle Volkihar is located on "An island near the border to Highrock.". The castle is nearer Skyrim than the Vale on a map, so its hard to pinpoint. In any case, I think the relevant paragraph should be reworded to make its location more general/vague, such as "located in the region between Skyrim and High Rock." --Jimeee (talk) 15:44, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
Well, first of all, the borders on maps are just approximate, as the mountain ranges are often so massive that it is hard to mark the border precisely. Secondly, the map marker is not actually placed over the Vale, as it is one of those "impossible" places that have their own small worldspaces. Applying the same way of thinking, you could say that Fort Dawnguard is in Morrowind. The most accurate statement would probably be that the Vale is located in the Druadach mountains between Skyrim and High Rock, but there isn't any evidence for it to be more in High Rock than in Skyrim. The release of Wrothgar for ESO might or might not introduce new information on that matter, but for now I see no reason for listing it as being in High Rock. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 15:54, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
If one compares the maps, one does notice, that Fort Dawnguard is not in Morrowind but only very close to, while still in Skyrim. But the F. Vale not. It shouldn't be listed as part of Skyrim. Other facts are, that the F.V. has another music, animals, architecture, mostly another flora etc.. We propaply gonna have a definite solution in TES VI Argonia, where all of Tamriel shall be explorable and bequestable. But I'm sure the F.V. is entirely in High Rock. --80.108.153.176 19:02, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
The Forgotten Vale is snowy, colonised by Snow Elves, filled with dragons, and can only be reached from the Skyrim side. If that isn't enough historical and metaphysical evidence, I don't know what is. —Legoless (talk) 19:27, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
I don't know, what that has to do with wether it's in Skyrim or High Rock + how do you wanna know that there isn't another (maybe hidden) entrance to the F. Vale?
--80.108.153.176 20:36, 23 April 2015 (GMT)

() Because there isn't any other entrance to the FV in Skyrim (the game, in this case). Unless some future game/add-on/lore/etc. explicitly states that it's in High Rock, consensus here says that it's in Skyrim. All of the explicit facts suggest that it's still in Skyrim. •WoahBro►talk 21:09, 23 April 2015 (GMT)

(edit conflict) The Elder Scrolls themselves imply that that's the only entrance. The Snow Elves and dragons being there puts the place firmly within the scope of Skyrim's history rather than High Rock's, and the fact that it's snowy ties in with Tower Lore and the possible influence of Snow-Throat. None of these are definitive proof by any stretch of the imagination, but there is zero evidence that it should be located in High Rock. The reason it doesn't fit Nataly Dravarol's map is because it was added to the game after the map was made. Maps are not a science in TES lore, especially when it comes to mountains. —Legoless (talk) 21:14, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
To be fair, Legoless, all those reason you listed aren't concrete evidence. The borders of Skyrim have shifted so many times over the eras, so it may not be accurate to assume that because its inhabited by Falmer and Dragons in the 4th Era, it must be part of Skyrim. If the Chantry was the epicentre of their culture, its not unreasonable to say the lands of the Snow Elves (Mereth) could have reached into what we call today east High Rock during the 1st Era. Dragons aren't unique to Skyrim so that can't really be used as a sure-fire sign. Snowy weather? Just look next door at the climate of parts of Haafingar or the Rift. Snow does not a Skyrim make! Like I said, I don't really support saying it definitely located in High Rock, but rather that its probably somewhere in between.--Jimeee (talk) 21:17, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
Since no modern race has ever supposedly set foot in the vale, it couldn't have moved into High Rock - no one knows about it. It's true, Skyrim used to extend into the Western Reach, but my argument is that it's more accurate to categorise it as a region of Skyrim due to its historical inclusion, preserved contiguity, and similar climate. It's included in the game Skyrim; why would we assume it's supposed to be in High Rock when it was obviously just shoehorned on by DLC in any old place the devs could find? I wouldn't mind calling it no-man's-land so much if it was a mountain pass, but as far as we know it's not. —Legoless (talk) 21:27, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
TES Dragonborn is a Skyrim DLC, but quests in Morrowind on Solstheim. The climate in the F.V. is of course a similar one, because both provinces are in the north of Tamriel. And, the dragons have risen (and were also already some hundred years ago in Tamriel) not only in Skyrim, but in all of Tamriel, which is clearly mentioned and you can see yourself that in Morrrowind's Solstheim are also dragons. Plus, the F.V.Dragons look other than Skyrim's Dragons, which also indicates the F.V. to be a region of another province. --80.108.153.176 21:56, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
Solstheim is different, because we are directly told many times that the island is located in Morrowind. With the Forgotten Vale, there is no mention of High Rock, and assuming otherwise is simply original research. Also, dragons weren't all over Tamriel, Solstheim just used to be part of Skyrim. —Legoless (talk) 22:02, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
Let me get this argument correctly. One side is based on circumstantial evidence found in games. The other side is based on original research from an out of game map released by Bethesda and apparently a lack of anything specifically saying it is in Skyrim and not High Rock. If this is a correct synopsis of the argument, then it is clear that we should state it is in Skyrim. First off, a lack of evidence of one thing doesn't prove the other, so we'll just ignore that argument. Original research doesn't belong on the wiki. Simple as that. The Forgotten Vale is no where on the Nataly Dravarol Skyrim map, and I can't find evidence of a Dravarol High Rock map ever existing, just a Skyrim and Cyrodiil one. Could you provide a link to a High Rock map if this is the case? Even so, the in-game circumstantial trumps any Original Research ever. Even if we didn't have ANY in-game evidence at all, we couldn't include it. This is a completely moot argument... Jeancey (talk) 22:32, 23 April 2015 (GMT)
I don't know, what "evidence" do you mean, there is no evidence at all, that the F.V. would be in Skyrim. I already told and showed you many facts, which state that the F.V. cannot be in Skyrim, but rather in High Rock. There aren't any only-High-Rock-maps (and I think, you know it), but you can compare the maps/perspectives of Tamriel with those of Skyrim to see where exactly the border is and you would come to the conclusion that the F.V. is in High Rock. And Solstheim also isn't part of Skyrim, but part of Morrowind, it was some hundred years ago part of Skyrim for a certain time period. Now, it's again in Morrowind and its climate in the north is a similar like that of Skyrim or the F.V.. And no, the dragons have returned in all of Tamriel and can also fly wherever they wanna. Also, the Darkfall Cave isn't the only "entrance" to the F.V., because a good climber can get from everywhere into the Vale. It's obvious, that the F.V. is part of High Rock. --80.108.153.176 07:35, 24 April 2015 (GMT)

() I'm not arguing that it HAS to be part of Skyrim simply because it is in the game of the same name. I'm arguing that the only evidence that you have given is original research based on official, but out of game, information. Nothing on the map says Forgotten Vale, and comparing one map to an in-game map and attempting to connect the border to the in-game map IS original research. There's no denying that. And we have extremely strict rules on original research. It simply isn't allowed on the wiki. So I'm not entirely sure why this isn't a moot point? Jeancey (talk) 16:36, 24 April 2015 (GMT)

But that article also states the Vale being in Skyrim. When I changed it to High Rock, one has linked me to this talk to discuss it here. We can of course talk on the talk page there on, if you wanna. But I am also stating Skyrim's maps and perspectives as sources for the F.V. being in High Rock. --80.108.153.176 19:26, 24 April 2015 (GMT)
You are doing your own research on them in order to come up with the result of it in High Rock. That's Original Research. It just simply isn't allowed on the wiki (or even wikipedia for that matter). If there was an in-game source saying that it was in High Rock, or even saying that the Vale straddled the border, that would be reasonable. But the only thing even mentioning the border is the statement that Castle Volikhar was near the border to High Rock, but we don't know how close it really is. Is it near compared to Solitude? Or is it 5 feet from the border? We just don't know, and that the only in-game source saying a Dawnguard addon location in any relation to High Rock or the border. It just isn't enough. Jeancey (talk) 19:35, 24 April 2015 (GMT)
I see, you simply have too strict rules for that though something is obviously wrong/true. Alright, the section can be closed. --80.108.153.176 21:00, 24 April 2015 (GMT)

Can't exit through paragon portals[edit]

Whenever i go through a paragon portal from the main area (where you place the paragons), i can get to the destination however when i try to leave through the portal, the screen will fade but will not go to a loading screen, leaving me stuck. In the ruby and emerald portals i can simply fast travel and in the amethyst and diamond portals i can simply drop down into water and go through the cave, however there is no way out of the sapphire portal as it is an enclosed room.

Does anyone else have this problem? Should it be put in a bugs section of the page? --1.121.166.81 05:18, 11 July 2014 (GMT)

What platform are you playing? Do you have any mods or unofficial patches installed? If not, then you are free to add the bug in your own wording. It will automatically be marked with need for verification, so with time someone either will stumble upon the same bug and can confirm it, or there might be another user trying to replicate the bug to confirm it. There might be a few helpful edits afterwards if there are ways to improve it. Otherwise, if the bug is already noted elsewhere, the contribution will be removed with some sort of explanation why. —MortenOSlash (talk) 20:45, 13 July 2014 (GMT)

Length[edit]

The current article's walkthrough section is incredibly long. It might be worth moving some of the sections up above it (notes, paragon info), or at least adding a table of contents. —Legoless (talk) 01:19, 17 January 2015 (GMT)

Frozen crowned skeleton.[edit]

The article is incredibly detailed, so I was very surprised to find something interesting that was not mentioned in it. After you cross the bridge that leads to the Inner Sanctum, if you jump on the rocks to the left and make your way towards a ruined archway near the edge of the slope, you will find a skeleton stuck in the frozen rock. It is noteworthy because, aside from the loot found (two gems and an Elven greatsword), there is a crown above the skull that cannot be picked up. 201.1.18.117 07:02, 9 February 2015 (GMT)

Lake and overencumberedness[edit]

One noteworthy item for players that hoard like myself and often become overencumbered - the lake's waterflow current is too strong to swim against when carrying too much, which makes accessing and escaping from the submerged chests either difficult and/or impossible.— Unsigned comment by 99.203.23.152 (talk) at 00:31 on 25 September 2018 UTC

While your observations are correct, these game mechanics are not specific to the Forgotten Vale. If you feel your observations should be noted, my advice would be to find a more suitable page for it. —MortenOSlash (talk) 16:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)