Skyrim talk:Soljund's Sinkhole

Not Clearable

I can't seem to get a cleared status for the area on my map. I finished the quest, found all the treasure and mined all the moonstone but it's still not showing up. Is there something I'm missing? — Unsigned comment by 50.92.74.94 (talk) at 13:44 on 26 November 2011

As far as I can tell, it's not clearable. — Unsigned comment by 24.150.185.104 (talk) at 01:08 on 11 December 2011

im also having the same problem, ran through the place a few times just to make sure. not clearable 76.16.56.252 03:23, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Me too; I think this page should be marked as Clearable:No.-WalB 15:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I tweaked it, the page now displays Clearable=No. Wolok gro-Barok 15:55, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed in game data that it is not clearable: it does not have a boss. --Nephele^Talk 03:46, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Mine cleared?

After taking the right turning at the mine entrance and despatching the "boss" dragon priest at the end, the quest completion message was issued, even though the area at left tunnel from the entrance still had three draugr. (Lmstearn (talk) 12:39, 5 November 2013 (GMT))

I am not sure what is your point here? Finishing a quest is not the same as clearing a dungeon, if that is what you are thinking about? —MortenOSlash (talk) 21:36, 5 November 2013 (GMT)

To avoid confusion, perhaps this topic should be moved to the "Skyrim:Soljund's Sinkhole (quest)" wiki page.

Here it states "To complete the quest, enter the sinkhole and clear out the draugr."

But as stated previously, the (misc) quest actually completed before all sections of the dungeon was cleared of draugr.

Perhaps it is indeed the case, (I won't be testing it) that you only need to despatch the "boss" draugr in order to complete the quest.

(Lmstearn (talk) 08:25, 6 November 2013 (GMT))

I see. Yes, you are right, I believe. You might rather take the discussion there. Your posting there might also benefit from a tiny bit more precise explanation, like including some of what you mentioned in your answer here. —MortenOSlash (talk) 22:12, 6 November 2013 (GMT)

Removed entries @ notable loot

• In the room with the pool, a hole in the floor lets you enter an underwater section with another chest
• After the room with the pool, up the stairs there is a hidden passage behind the fallen stones to the far right. There is a room behind it with a chest
  

I'd like to have that off the page because it's already mentioned in zone #1 as "…go into the water next to the altar with the candles to find a chest under the floor" and "At the top of the stairs, a semi-hidden passage to your right will lead to a chest" (3rd paragraph). Though, if someone knew about another hidden passage or hole into the water and thus relevance for the removed notes, feel free to re-add them.
In addition I changed the description in my first quote a little… -- CompleCCity (talk) 16:54, 12 April 2014 (GMT)

Dead Breton

When jumping into the sinkhole, I landed on a dead male Breton lying on the pile of clutter. No notable loot, common clothes and a dagger as far as I remember.
This is neither mentioned here nor on the quest page. Am I the only one who did find him? -- CompleCCity (talk) 19:09, 14 April 2014 (GMT)

Soljund's Sinkhole Mine

Soljund's Sinkhole is not a cave neither it can be cleared, the bug has been addressed by v3.0.6 of the USLEEP Patch Bug #21027 the page should be edited — Unsigned comment by Ebonyblade2000 (talk • contribs) at 22:24 on 16 January 2017

That fix changes the map marker, it does not say anything about the keyword attached to the sinkhole that marks it as clearable, or the lack of a boss that allows it to actually be cleared. Presumably given the USKP change they will not be making a boss tag in order to mark it cleared. I see nothing that needs edited on the page, the bug exists on the unpatched game and will always exist, therefore given a lack of a fix there is simply nothing to add. As far as the wiki is concerned this is a cave because Bethesda made it a cave. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:32, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

The map marker itself explains that it is not clearable and USLEEP Team are aware of this mistake because of the game files information and Bethesda wrongfully assigned it as a cave just like any other bug, and mines cannot be cleared this quest is just like Kolskeggr Mine quest — Unsigned comment by Ebonyblade2000 (talk • contribs) at 23:47 on 16 January 2017

Because the USKP is unofficial anything they do cannot be assumed to be the correct course of action. Without any clear evidence I would dispute the interpretation that this to a mine rather than a cave. I see nothing to suggest that Bethesda made a mistake in that regard. Kolskeggr Mine was clearly a mine seized by enemies, this was a mine that delved too deep and came across a crypt, thus losing its status as a mine because it was unmineable. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 01:51, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

The UESP promotion of a mod that names itself an unofficial patch has always made me uneasy for exactly this reason. While I can see the point of addressing leftover bugs in the games, there will also be disputable what is a bug and not, and how it should be fixed. Let us stick as much as possible to the documentation of facts and avoid as far as possible speculations. If the game data has parameters for marking it clearable and the game data miss the boss needed to clear, then we document that, and try to involve as few other things as possible. If the USLEEP needs to be noted, then just do so in a brief and non speculative way, and nothing more. I guess the USLEEP team will do that themselves in due time. —MortenOSlash (talk) 06:43, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Clearable Location Issue

The location isn't "clearable" because the location data for the mine is separate from that of the surface settlement. You can only get the "Cleared" tag on a map marker which is part of the location. The dungeon itself has a BOSS marked properly and always has but the settlement outside is not part of that and thus was never eligible to be marked as cleared because clearing a settlement makes no sense. I don't believe it's valid to consider this setup a bug in any way, but it is notable which is why I moved it to the Notes section. Arthmoor (talk) 00:25, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

There is no documented (on the wiki) "settlement" called Soljund's Sinkhole. There is the mine/cave (this page), and the Miner's House. The whole setup may require reworking in the case that this is a small settlement by the name of Soljund's Sinkhole, which the data does appear to support. It is still a bug/oversight that the location is tagged with the clearable keyword, as the only other questionable location with the keyword is the Hall of the Vigilant, which can actually be cleared. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 18:33, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

That it has the keyword tag on it isn't really enough to declare it a bug. There are plenty of other locations with the same issue that don't register being cleared and are not listed as bugs here either, and are also not fixed by the Unofficial Patch. There is no way in-game to determine that the location can or cannot be cleared since nothing in the UI will give this away until you kill the occupants of the dungeon in question. Soljund's Sinkhole is therefore nothing special in this regard and listing it as a bug, and further claiming the reason is because it lacks a boss NPC is completely inaccurate. One quick look in the CK proves that it does have a boss NPC and always has, yet there's repeated discussion here claiming it doesn't and never did. So if the various folks making snide comments about the patch doing this or that or whatever want to "stick to the facts" they first need to have those facts on hand to stick to. Arthmoor (talk) 18:44, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I don't see any comparable locations in either the CSList, or the category which is generated through the summary, and any location with the keyword is supposed to be marked in the summary. Every location that has the keyword but cannot be cleared is marked in the summary and either a note or bug entry is on the page. There are no other locations with the settlement keyword that have the clearable keyword. The reference to a settlement is an issue here, because there is no other mention of a settlement on any relevant page. This page is about the cave, which is marked as clearable, and makes the reason for it being unclearable the fact that it isn't connected to the map marker. If we need to split this to have a page about the settlement, then the reason for the cave being unclearable becomes that it shouldn't have the keyword as it is within a settlement. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 19:10, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I think you're kind of missing the point though. The keyword being present produces no noticeable difference in gameplay. Posting it as a bug in any capacity implies that such a change in gameplay is present. There are plenty of other dungeons which are not clearable, some which have the keyword, others which don't. I really do fail to see why this particular one is getting special treatment from the site. It produces an inconsistency in bug reporting - which is ironically something previous users on this very page have gone out of their way to accuse the USSEP of doing over the years. Arthmoor (talk) 21:39, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

This page is not getting special treatment, it is getting exactly the same treatment as every other location that is tagged as clearable, and has a reason why it is not, should be getting (see Bthardamz, Swindler's Den, Arcwind Point). You do have a point in that there are some inconsistencies, but the undocumented cases are in the wrong. If the keyword makes no difference here, why was it enough of an issue to remove it from Stendarr's Beacon? Why if it was removed from Stendarr's Beacon was it not removed from the Hall of the Vigilant? It might not be anything the USSEP needs to devote any time to, even if it was listed as a bug on this page, but it is going to need an explanation. I wouldn't be having a go at people who questioned the USSEP's decisions given that they have proved fallible before.

To counter your suggestion, I think you're missing parts of what I'm asking. You've made mention of this being a settlement, and to repeat myself we don't document this as a settlement, just a cave and a house. If there is a settlement named Soljund's Sinkhole, as well as the cave and the house, we can move the pages around to document this. This has a direct impact on the issue of the clearable tag, as it is clearly wrong on a settlement, but a cave (which is how the game treats the location) might be expected to have the clearable tag, especially when it has a boss that allows this to happen (yes I know USSEP changes it to a mine but the whole location is mess of overlapping code that suggests multiple revisions to what this place was meant to be). Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:49, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I see that it's been moved to the Notes section with different wording as to why it's noteworthy. So I think that's really all that needs be done, yes? The problem with this specific spot is that "Sojund's Sinkhole" was a name given to the cave originally, which evolved over time into a mine, and then had a topside settlement added to it. All without properly reconfiguring the location data. We can't determine what the setup was supposed to be and since there is in fact a settlement topside, it's logical to conclude it shouldn't be clearable because of that. It's also logical to conclude that since the map marker ships in vanilla as a cave when it should have been a mine (regardless of what's under it, the whole place is a mining operation originally) and no mines are set up as clearable locations, there's actually nothing wrong with this. The main issue I'm seeing is that people continue to insist the location has no boss NPC when the game data flatly says it does. To make it perfectly clear, as the CK has it set up right now, SoljundsSinkholeLocation only covers the topside settlement. SoljundsMineMinersHouseLocation only covers the interior cell for the house, which is correctly set to use the topside settlement location as its parent. SoljundsMineMineLocation is the one assigned to the actual mine interior, which correctly has the LocTypeMine keyword on it as every other mine does. So the location data entries themselves are all set up right, except the topside settlement is incorrectly tagged as clearable, cave, draugr crypt, and dungeon when this is not the case. So if there's any actual bug to be fixed here, it's fixing the topside settlement so that it has the correct keywords on it. Which when I look at the USSEP data right now hasn't been done for whatever reason and probably should have when we fixed the missing Civil War keywords that caused it to fail switching sides in the war. Arthmoor (talk) 00:06, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Looked at from a visitor/player's perspective the in-game experience is that it cannot be cleared. The "Cleared" message never shows up on the map. The "Cleared" message is a nice feature, a map aide for the player, helping to answer "Have I been here before and killed off the boss or cleared the dungeon?" Whether it's a mine, cave, settlement, etc.; what is the criteria for clearing; whether it is consistent with precedent on the site; and what does the CK tell us about the nature of the problem; all are beside the point. The person reading the UESP site should understand something is wrong by looking at where all of the other wrong things live. According to the above it is fixable. Three and a half years later it has not been fixed. If it is supposed to be "clearable", and can be corrected to be "clearable", but isn't, it is a bug. So I "reverted" it to bug. On the other hand, if it cannot be corrected, the "clearable" field should say, "NO". Kalevala (talk) 15:10, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

It's never going to be able to show on the map as cleared because the map marker to the settlement is in a different data location. There isn't one for the mine and it isn't possible for it to have one added. Arthmoor (talk) 19:36, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks!! Then I'll change clearable to NO. Kalevala (talk) 19:52, 25 January 2023 (UTC)