UESPWiki:Archive/CP Money

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This is an archive of past UESPWiki:Community Portal discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Money

We've been very inconsistant on this site with the terminology used for money in the game. That's understandable, since the games themselves are not consistant. But I feel it would look better if we had some official policy on which term is the standard for the site. The most common terms I've seen used are:

  • Gold
  • Septims
  • Drakes
  • gp

Although other terms exist, some of them combinations of these, such as "Gold Drakes", etc. I've decided to put this to a vote. Choose the term you prefer, with a brief explanation why if you wish. After a consensus has been reached, this will be written up in policy somewhere. --TheRealLurlock Talk 15:07, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

Another thought just occurred to me - if we do go with "gold", should it be "Gold" or "gold"? I'm inclined not to capitalize it in most cases. (Except in rare cases when it's at the beginning of a sentence, of course.) Also, I should say that the main place I'm concerned about these terms is in official locations, such as quest rewards, charts, and other such formal constructs. "Drakes" and "Septims" might still be used in the text of a quest, just as they're still used in dialogue in the game. But for all official purposes, I'd propose "gold" (or "Gold"), just for consistancy. (Also, another argument against "septims" in this case is that "gold" takes up less room, and often space is a matter for concern in such things as quest headers and item charts.) "GP" or "gp" is smaller, but not used in the games, so it should probably be summarily banned in all cases. (Unfortunately, the Search function on the site does not allow you to search for strings of only 2 characters - I'm forced to search using Google, which is a bit trickier since it includes the old-site which can't be changed.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 16:44, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

Votes

  • Gold - Seems simple and neutral. "Septims" is Imperially biased, and might not be the preferred term among some people in the game. "Drakes" is ambiguous and might not be obvious to first-time players not familiar with the games. "gp" is just too short - and not a term ever used in the actual games. (It's more of a D&D thing.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 15:07, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Gold - Because That's what most players call it, and it is conveniant. --Playjex 15:53, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Depends - Not just to be difficult, I promise! I'd agree "gp" is right out, but let me explain my feelings on the other three. In British terms they would translate roughly as "notes", "pounds" and "quid" respectively (even though we now use pound coins rather than notes, except in Scotland). Drakes / quid is pure slang. Gold / notes describes what the currency is and Septims / Pounds is the technically correct name. "Gold" is by far the most common term in use (237 occurrences of "gold" in SI-inclusive dialogue, although some of that may be about other stuff). "Septim" is Imperially-biased and there are only five occurrences of the word with a lower case "s" but it's the official name. If we want to be "official", then this is the one to go for. For the record, there's only one occurrence of "drake" that I can find and no "gp" (this is only in dialogue, remember). So my "depends" is about the style we want to adopt. "Gold" isn't very encyclopedic but it would reflect typical usage; "Septim" is the correct term but is used vastly less and the other two can be discounted. This is now far too long so I'll finish by saying that if I'm forced to pick one, I'll go for "gold". --RpehTalk 15:55, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Update - Nephele makes a very good point below, which answers my "What are we trying to be?" question. I'll now definitely vote Gold. Of course now TES5 will use platinum just to spite us... --RpehTalk 00:12, 14 September 2007 (EDT)
    • It's similar to the US - "notes", "dollars" and "bucks". Our dollars still are paper (unless you count those Sacagawea coins almost nobody uses), and they do use the word "note" on them. ("THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS") Though the word "note" is almost never used anywhere else. "Dollars" is the standard term. However, I don't see necessarily that the word "Septim" is an analog for "Pounds" or "Dollars". In addition to the dialogue discrepency ("gold" is much more common in Morrowind as well, followed by "drakes" - "septims" is actually the least common of the three, probably because Morrowind isn't Cyrodiil, and they're a little wary of all things Imperial.), there's also the fact that the item in the games is universally referred to as "Gold". If you see it on the ground, it's called "gold". If you look in your inventory, it's called "gold". The only place "septims" is used is in dialogue, while "gold" is used both in dialogue and in pretty much every other aspect of the game. It is in this way that I see it as being different from "pounds" or "dollars". How often do you ever hear people referring to money as "notes"? I mean, you can say a "ten pound note" just as you can say a "ten dollar bill", but more likely you're just going to say "ten pounds/dollars", (or even more likely £10/$10) because those are the words in most common usage. Not so with "gold"/"septims". I think that common usage should prevail in either case, and in that case, the word is "gold". --TheRealLurlock Talk 16:16, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Gold - Based on what Lurlock just stated, it seems that current guidelines already point to "Gold" being the "right" answer. For names of items, the name as displayed in-game is taken to be the correct name, i.e., the name that shows up in your inventory, or when your mouse is over an item on the ground. That name is given preference over names that might appear in dialogues or elsewhere. For example, Saviour's Hide is being used as the official Oblivion name of this item even though it's generally referred to as "Savior's Hide" (no "u"). --NepheleTalk 16:42, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Septims - I think that because this is the official name of the currency, it's the one that should be used. I think it's not all that relevant which is used the most, because this can differ from game to game. --Zoidberg 16:48, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
    • Well, both Morrowind and Oblivion - which are the two most visited parts of the site - definitely use "gold" more often than "septims". And Morrowind at least also uses "drakes" more often than "septims". Were "septims" more common in the earlier games? I don't know, but I'm not sure it matters. Anyhow, there's yet another (and this time lore-friendly) reason why "gold" might be more appropriate. After the Main Quest of Oblivion is completed, the Septim Dynasty is ended, and thus in the 4th Era, they probably won't be naming their money after them anymore. (We'll have to wait until TESV comes out to see, but it seems unlikely that they'd continue using the term when there are no more living Septims in power.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 23:16, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Gold --Wrye 22:40, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Gold - I vote "Gold" as well, just because it's more commonly used. --Eshe 23:17, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Gold - It seems to me that we should continue using terms that the game's programs use, not the name the game's characters use, whatever that may be. --GuildKnight (Talk) contribs 00:16, 14 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Septims - To me, saying 300 gold doesn't sound right, as gold is an uncountable noun. Gold pieces or gp would be better for me, but since these terms are not used in the games, I go for Septims, which is the official name of the currency. --DrPhoton 03:08, 14 September 2007 (EDT)
  • gold - To say "300 Gold" would irk me, personally. I'd be best with "300 gold," since in this situation, we all know that the term "gold" is equivalent to one septim or one drake. It's just easier. But, why is everyone trying to say "Dollars," rather than "dollars"? Somercy 10:19, 14 September 2007 (EDT)
  • gold --Mankar Camoran 15:33, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
  • gold - I say any variation of gold would do. Gold is more true to the original Dungeons and Dragons base. Most RPGs are based off Dungeons and Dragons and all the Elder Scrolls games are RPGs. Hence, gold should be used. Sir Sword 22:25, 12 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Septims AND Drakes - Septims is the official terminology, and that is enough in my opinion. however, Drakes is also a term often used in both Morrowind and Oblivion; slang for the correct word, like "Bucks" for Dollars in America and "Quid" for Pounds in the United Kingdom. Sorry to be so real-life, but that's the truth! The ambiguity of Drakes may be confusing, but the whole point of this Wiki is to educate people about TES, so that is what we should do! (HMSVictory 13:33, 7 November 2007 (EST))

Conclusion

  • Well, it seems that gold is the most popular option, so we should probably stick with that. This does not mean that the words "Septims" and "Drakes" are banned from use, however. I'm willing to make a compromise here given how strong people's opinions seem to be on this issue. Let's just say that in all "official" locations, such as in templates denoting quest-rewards, tables for merchants or items, etc., we should use "gold" for consistancy. (The whole purpose of templates is to provide consistant formatting, and that gets subverted when using different terms interchangeably.) Within the text of the articles, however, any of the three terms is still acceptable, since article-text is slightly less formal, and doesn't need to be consistant all the time. --TheRealLurlock Talk 10:02, 8 November 2007 (EST)
I think an encyclopaedic article has to be formal (and consistent) at all times. I rest my case. --Mankar CamoranTCE 10:18, 8 November 2007 (EST)