Lore talk:History

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Standardizing General[edit]

The General section for history is a total mess right now, and it's unclear what it is even for. Are we using it for events that occur multiple times in history, such as the Wild Hunt, Konunleikar, or Greymarches? If so, why do we also have general concepts relating to events, such as Time Wounds, or Dragonfires, listed? And why are we listing general philosophies or concepts like 'Empire' or 'Way of the Voice', in that case? Neither of these are events, nor are they tied to any specific event that occurs multiple times in history. We already list all three empires separately in their respective eras, and events relating to the philosophy of the greybeards are just normal, historical events from the first era.

To summarize: The general tab makes absolutely no sense as is, we need to figure out what actually belongs in it, if anything. - Jacksol (talk) 01:26, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

The first question in order to reach a resolution is whether those topics fit better under any of the other Lore topic areas listed at Lore:Main Page. If not, is History the correct place for them? If still not, what new topic area do we need to create? --Enodoc (talk) 07:56, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
I would really rather not move these articles under Appendices if we can help it. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:10, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Konunleikar should go under Calendar and Time Wound should go under Magic, and there's an argument that Empire could go under Factions, but other than that I think they are probably correct as History topics which don't fit in a particular Era. --Enodoc (talk) 08:33, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
I think Time Wounds are fine under History, considering they are holes in the timeline. I don't know what they have to do with magic. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:38, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Here is my take on this, Konunleikar is an outliner and should go into the Calander section, Purification is part of a guilds history rather then Tamriel history. Those two are the ones I would consider moving or keeping out of it. Dragonfires are important concept that should be in there as not only are they an important concept but they played a major role in the history of the series. Time Wounds, I added that in because the Dragon Break was also part of the general. The thing is Time Wounds and Dragonbreaks both have played major roles in history in some form or another. One time wound was created when Akatosh banished TES's version of a time traveling Terminator out of Elsweyr, but the first major time wound played a huge historical role in the Banishment of Alduin and was a major key in his defeat as it allowed the Last Dragonborn to view the past in order to learn the shout needed to defeat him. So both of those are fine being there because of their role in actual history. I'm actually fine with whatever is decided here but those are my takes on the issue at hand. TheVampKnight (talk) 09:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
As time has passed and more and more added, we've not really re-evaluated this page. It has some crossover with Lore:Appendices, but its is messy with things like agreements, events, prophecies, phenomena and factions. It might be better served to categories these properly and include them into Lore:Appendices. Lego, why dont you like that idea? Is it the length of the page? --Jimeee (talk) 09:43, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
I guess the main issue for me is the length of the transcluded {{Lore:Appendices}} list. You can see on some pages already that its length is beginning to cause formatting issues (e.g. Lore:Septim Dynasty). If we can find an alternate home for these pages that's great, but I'm conscious that these topics are not the most "universe-relevant" and would begin to clog up the main Appendices list.
Honestly, keeping the list here under History seems fine to me. I think the discrepancy is having them in the same list as Era-grouped "historical events". Maybe if we had a separate section for "Historical Topics" or something they would seem less out of place? —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:51, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok, so if the length of the transcluded list is a fair point, but that can be solved - a webpage layout shouldn't trump better categorisation. We can convert the Appendices sidebar into a bottom footer. This gives us the freedom to categorise other odd lore pages in a way that makes more sense. I believe that will give these pages way more visibility, as currently they are quite niche and hard to find.

There are other odd pages that are not listed and don't quite fit in History, but that would benefit. We can create an Appendices footer to accommodate these:

Empires

  • Reman Dynasty
  • Akaviri Potentate
  • Septim Dynasty
  • Mede Dynasty

Law and Politics:

  • Guild Act
  • Levitation Act
  • Armistice
  • Coldharbour Compact
  • Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai
  • Green Pact

Prophecies and Phenomena

  • Bloodmoon Prophecy
  • Dragon Break
  • Dragonfires
  • Ritual of the Ancestor Moth
  • Time Wound
  • Tyranny of the Sun
  • Void Nights
  • Wild Hunt

Philosophy?

  • Way of the Voice

Notable Events?

  • Calendar
  • Greymarch
  • Konunleikar
  • Purification

Culture

Other?

  • Disease
  • Drugs
    • Alcoholic Beverages

--Jimeee (talk) 10:33, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

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