Morrowind talk:Reflect

Points

I've seen a few pages refer to Reflect with "points" or "pts", let's track these down if it's supposed to say "%". Lukish_ Tlk Cnt 06:40, 29 December 2008 (EST)

Clarification?

Can anyone clear up whether Reflect applies strictly to spells, or does it also include any hostile magical effects, such as those from cast-on-strike weapons? Thanks for any response. — Unsigned comment by 75.47.106.23 (talk)

Yes, it does. it applies to all forms of magical attack - spells, scrolls, cast on strike enchantments on weapons, and cast on use enchantments on other items. --Gaebrial 04:53, 25 February 2009 (EST

I've got another question about when reflection applies. What about weapons with on-self and on-strike enchantment, like King's Oath? Or items like the Boots of Blinding Speeeed? Can you reflect those effects? I'm asking because there actually is no Caster you could reflect back to. Anyone tested that already? 217.229.225.91 18:23, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

On-strike would be reflected to the attacker. On-self it would be irrelevant, since it would be reflected back to yourself anyway. 173.9.249.225 19:28, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

buying reflect and spell absorption spell potions

reflect and spell absorption are two spells from potions you can buy that are worth it. With the unofficial patch buy from Nalcarya of White Haven. Making enchantment is hugely expensive like 300K making spells costs tons of magicka making potions nets you about 8% and 18 secs buying a potion nets 20% 60 secs you can buy em for $37 if you have the patch and a good merchantile skill — Unsigned comment by Mrp8196 (talk • contribs) at 02:10 on 19 July 2009

reflect %

"For each active source of this effect, a check is made to see if an incoming spell is reflected. The check is done on a scale of 100, meaning 1 point equals 1 percent. If you are affected by two spells of 50 point Reflect, the two effects won't stack, so the total chance to reflect spells won't be 100%. After the initial check of 50% and another check of 50%, you will have, on average, a 75% chance to reflect."

This is not true for reflect! It's true for spell absorption (which does not match the description on here right either). Reflect is a straight percentage and does stack.--69.249.124.89 16:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Can others test whether Reflect really does stack additively? Or does it check each instance? I noticed that with 100% Reflect (through a combination of items and potions), enemy spells were still getting through. -Smokey — Unsigned comment by 110.159.80.54 (talk) at 18:43 on 28 September 2011

I've spent hours testing this after getting repeatedly killed by Gedna Relvel with up to ~140% total Reflect during my low level challenge run. I do not know how multiple instances of Reflect stack with each other, but I do know that they do NOT stack additively like the wiki page currently claims. I suspect it is multiplicatively. I've double-checked my tests in a basic Steam installation with no mods and no MCP. With Wraithguard, Marara's Ring, Darksun Shield, Robe of Drakes Pride, Helm of Graff the White and Dagger of Symmachus, your total Reflect adds up to 105%. You can summon bonewalker_greater and see that your strength does indeed get damaged, and lich_relvel should kill you relatively quickly. If Reflect does stack multiplicatively, equipping the aforementioned items should give you around 69% chance to reflect a spell, and 31% of the spell getting through, which is roughly in line with what I've noticed in my tests. Therefore, Royal Signet Ring and Ring of Equity are the ONLY ways to make a character immune to all (non-reflected) magic. — Unsigned comment by 91.138.38.229 (talk) at 13:25 on 31 August 2021

Found the cause of confusion: Reflect is additive for OpenMW, but multiplicative for vanilla morrowind. See Geist's post below. It is probably also worth mentioning that 'permanent' 100% Reflect can only be obtained via the Signet Ring: It's possible temporarily via custom Cast When Used items & spells (100% Spell Absorption for 33 secs costs 1700 magicka and is possible with a few prep spells that 'fortify x attribute/skill' by various amounts, 100% Reflect for 33 sevs would cost the same & have the same spell chance, more info in Chapter 16.3 here https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2834812759). TheFlyingRodent (talk) 19:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Area of Effect

"100% Reflect will make you basically immune to all magical damage, with the exception of damage reflected back to you by an enemy who is also using spell reflection. If both the caster and the target have 100% Reflect spells in effect, the spell can only be reflected once, so the caster will end up being hit with the spell. Note that even if you reflect an area of effect spell, if you are in close range you will still get hit. The caster will be targeted but the effect still has a damage radius."

Or does it?

From my observations the part in bold is not true, however, I'm not certain if it is just wrong, or if if it something related to mods or MCP.

Could someone verify this, in particular if AOE spell bouncing off Player Character can affect player character and if the opposite - spell effect bouncing off an NPC/creature affecting it if the caster is within spell's area of effect - is true?

If it is confirmed, some clarification regarding how the reflected AOE is modified by things like resistances of the caster would also help.

It would potentially be a great asset against highly reflective enemies, except, from what I can tell, it just doesn't work as described. 95.160.185.186 12:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Effect on Elemental Shields?

Does anyone know whether the "contact damage" (1 point per 10 points of shield strength) dealt by Fire Shield can be reflected? 75.47.98.211 21:22, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I would assume so. The only thing that is not supposed to be reflected is a spell which has already been reflected. --Brf 21:38, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Resist/Absorb

Noob question: Can a spell reflected back at a caster be resisted or absorbed by said caster? Ex.: Let's say I have 100% fire resist. I cast a fire spell, it gets reflected back at me. Do I resist it or take damage?— Unsigned comment by 99.240.224.157 (talk) at 01:56 on 7 August 2011

you will not take any damage i believe ZiguildMaster 01:59, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Atronach + Reflect: If I have the 50% spell absorption from the atronach sign and then cast/enchant/drink a potion for 50% reflect, am I completely immune to magic cast against me or will I need 100% of either effect? — Unsigned comment by 71.227.53.51 (talk) at 08:57 on 18 February 2021 (UTC)

50% Absorb + 50% Reflect will not make you immune to magic. As explained in the article, the effects are checked separately, starting with whichever effect was active first. In your example, the Absorb effect would be checked first, meaning you would have a 50% chance of absorbing the spell. If the absorb failed, you would then have a 50% chance to reflect the spell. There would still be a 25% chance that the spell is neither absorbed nor reflected. For full spell immunity, you would require 100% Reflect. 100% Spell Absorption cannot be achieved since each source of Absorb is checked separately; unlike Reflect, the Absorb effect is not additive. — Wolfborn↝^(Howl) 10:00, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Combating Reflect

So I've ended up killing myself on quite a few occasions by casting high-damage spells at enemies with Reflect, and with some digging and some trial and error, I've come up with a very reliable way to cast against said enemies without having to worry about reflected damage (without using absorb health spell), and I'm wondering where would be the most appropriate place to put it on here:

Easiest way is with Fire damage, simply collect Dragonbone Cuirass and Robe of the Drake's Pride (total of 125% Resist Fire), then use spells with Weakness to Fire 25 and as much Fire Damage as possible (even better with enchantments!) - the 25 weakness will allow your spell to damage anyone and everyone, even if they have 100% Fire Resist, and even if it's reflected it still leaves you with 100% Resist, so no damage!

And this could easily be improved upon - Wraithguard adds another 10% Resist, CE rings, amulets, etc with more Resist, and you can up the Weakness to Fire accordingly (and a Dunmer using all this would need only the cuirass and robe and could use 100% weakness).

And the best part is, if you use an enchantment for the attack spell, any character can pull this off rather easily - you don't have to have the quest from Neloth to be able to get the Robe from Senise Thindo, and if you make your special attack spell before going to Mudan Grotto, it will make short work of Mr. Steam Centurion guarding the Cuirass.

So yeah, that being said, where would be the best place to list this? Cuz I looked and looked trying to find a foolproof way to beat reflect (the only hole left in my mage's combat style), and couldn't find it anywhere, and I think it would be really helpful to have it somewhere on here. Any thoughts? — Unsigned comment by DextroWombat (talk • contribs) at 11:01 on 13 February 2012

While it is a good idea, it doesn't really belong here, I don't think there is somewhere on the wiki for this. Anyway, short of using exploits and the like these spells will have an extremely low chance to cast and cost a large amount of magicka (especially for a dunmer) meaning that you will be wasting the majority of your magicka on failing the spells.— Unsigned comment by Eddie the head (talk • contribs) at 11:27 on 13 February 2012

Are you basically saying that in order to counter Reflect, all you have to do is max the resistance to the element which you are using against the enemy with Reflect? If you mean that, that is pretty obvious and I too see no place where to put it (asides from Morrowind:Hints or the forums). If not, please explain a bit, as I am having a hard time understanding your point from all of the personal preferences you described in your edit. Please try to convey your ideas in a more generalized sense. -- kertaw48 17:00, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Explanation for the Undo?

Why was this edit undone? The previous claim that multiple instances of Reflect stack additively is factually incorrect. This can be tested by anyone ingame (Wraithguard, Marara's Ring, Darksun Shield, Robe of Drake's Pride, Helm of Graff the White and Dagger of Symmachus would give a total of 105% Reflect). Here's a video showing just that in a basic Morrowind installation, no mods, no MCP (with MGE XE): https://streamable.com/ujfrtz. Undoing this fix means the page is wrong again.

Additionally, from my testing, traps that deal magical damage can only be absorbed but not reflected, which can be tested with actual 100% Reflect (Royal Signet Ring). Geist (talk) 16:52, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Given that the preponderance of evidence is on your side (there's another post further up the page here which found the same thing) and the fact that the reversion was made by an anonymous editor with no contribution history and without explanation, I have reverted the article to your version. — Wolfborn^(Howl) 22:30, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Alrighty. Morrowind experiments. Video 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8u0xLfEgV4&feature=youtu.be Test was as follows (OpenMW 0.45, no mods installed or game fixes enabled so should be as close to vanilla as possible): 1. Make a bunch of Reflect potions with 900 Alchemy skill (each one was 46% for 131 secs). 2. Use console to spawn 10 Gedna Relvels. 3. Test once with no potions active (control test), and once with 3 potions active. If Reflect was Multiplicative, character should have 46% + (46% of 54% = 24.84%, 70.84% total) + (46% of 29.16% = 13.41% + 70.84%) = 84.25% total Reflect. I.e. around 1 in 6 spells should still deal damage, and some should still get through. Results: Character died to multiple Gedna's with no potions active (as expected). Character suffered no damage at all from both '46% x 3' trials, and killed all 10 Gedna's through reflection. Nothing got through. Conclusion from Test 1: Pretty safe to bet that Reflect is additive (46 + 46 + 46 = 'over 100%'), even if just for OpenMW, or perhaps only if potions are used. Video 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZTn0SxoQbA&feature=youtu.be Tested Reflect via the items illustrated by Geist. Items appear to completely block all spells, similar to potions from test 1. Conclusion from Tests 1 and 2: Reflect is ADDITIVE in OpenMW , but MULTIPLICATIVE for vanilla Morrowind! TheFlyingRodent (talk) 19:21, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

OpenMW is not Morrowind. It is a recreation made without access to the original source code, still in development and thus with many bugs, and not necessarily faithful to the original even in the parts that do work as intended. It should not be used when talking about Morrowind's game mechanics. Also, 0.45 is ancient. Reflect did indeed stack additively in OpenMW, but because this is not how it works in Morrowind, it was reported as a bug and fixed for the upcoming 0.48 release (https://gitlab.com/OpenMW/openmw/-/issues/6253). Geist (talk) 14:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Right, it's a recreation. But it IS a 'version' of Morrowind that several people play no? And perhaps a source of the confusion that resulted in the entry being changed to 'Reflect is additive'? It should probably be worth mentioning as a footnote as something along the lines of: 'OpenMW versions 0.47 and earlier contained a bug whereby Reflect was additive instead of multiplicative; this issue is set to be fixed in the upcoming v0.48 release'. TheFlyingRodent (talk) 19:21, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

I don't think non-standard versions need to be accommodated to, I even disable MCP while testing game mechanics, because it includes many gameplay changes that deviate from "vanilla", even though nobody would run Morrowind in this day and age on PC without MCP. But that's just me, I don't know UESP's stance on this. If you think that this is a worthwile addition, you can of course add it. Geist (talk) 20:04, 23 March 2023 (UTC)