Semi Protection

Oblivion talk:Dark Brotherhood/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Dark Brotherhood discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.


Well technically Sithis is the leader...I think Ocheeva is of higher rank as well since she acts as leader of the sanctuary in the place of Lachance. In the vampires desk you find a note addressed to Ocheeva petitioning Marie (that her name?) to stop using Garlic in her horrible attempts at alchemy. The letter and the manor in which it is addressed tends to suggest she is of higher authority.--Jenic 05:37, 2 April 2006 (EDT)

Sithis is more of a devine god, an inspiration towards the Dark Brotherhood. --Kintaro 15:31, 27 April 2006 (EDT)

Sithis is a diety worshipped by the Dark Brotherhood, a god of Chaos, Entropy, & Death. Slightly below him is the revered Night Mother, the mysterious leader of the Dark Brotherhood. She has five Leutenants in the organisation, of which LaChance is one. He is responsible for (among other things) the Cheydenhal Sanctuary. Orcheeva is the official leader of the house, with Vicente acting as her Leutenant and handling lower-ranked Brothers.


The game suggests other sanctuaries exist, but I have not yet found any.


The game suggests other sancturies exist in whole Tamriel. The one in Cheydinhal should be the only one in Cyrodiil.

No, It says that others exist in Cyrodiil. They were too lazy to make the others and NPC's.jking.

I seem to have stumbled upon a *really* weird bug.. after doing the Accidents Happen quest, I couldn't use the Sanctuary door in the abandoned house anymore.. thank God I found the ItemID for the key to the well behind the house here. My quest wasn't bugged, at least I don't think, it said I was done and needed to return to Vicente.. oh, and the first time I got to Cheydenhal, the quest arrow pointed towards the well, not the house.. odd. On a different note, there are other sanctuaries in *Cyrodiil*, not all of Tamriel. Wait. I'm confused now. Talk to Ocheeva :) Thander 00:36, 9 August 2006 (EDT)

Joining by console

When Lucien came to talk to me I killed him and looted all he had (it's kinda creepy that I have a barely clothed dead guy in my room at an inn). Now that there are no more other quests left I'm wondering if it is possible to join the brotherhood or get the starting quest with the console commands. I tried resurrecting im but when I talked to him the only topic available was "rumors". Is there a console to make me have the quest or to make the topic appear in the chat?

  • Sadly, by killing Lucien at that stage you made it impossible for that character to ever be a part of the dark brotherhood. Even if you resurrect him, as you found out, you will not be able to join. As I understand it, this is the same for any quest-giving npc that you kill before receiving or while completing a quest. -Annacecilia 01:32, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Unconfirmed joining comment

If u get up to the the argonion prisenors u get wactched or killing the pirates down on the water front works too. (by OBLIVION 10)

I moved this comment as I killed both the Argonian prisoners in the Arena and the waterfront pirates prior to getting the Dark Brotherhood invitation (for the Gray Prince). Can anyone confirm this, or comment on what other factors might have applied? --Actreal 20:49, 27 June 2006 (EDT)
I, too, killed the Argonian prisoners, killed at least a few waterfront pirates, and did all the Arena fights up to Gray Prince without a Dark Brotherhood invitation.... But this comment, and the one about the Eye of Fear have made me wonder whether in general killing someone who never fights back is always considered murder (at least as far as the Dark Brotherhood is concerned). I have noticed that sneak attacks are considered 'assaults' in your journal (even if the person being attacked is unambiguously evil). So by extension, possibly sneak attacks that kill someone outright are murder.--Nephele 18:22, 5 July 2006 (EDT)

Sneak attacks that kill someone outright are murder. I killed several townies that way (different characters) and was watched. So if you killed a Waterfront pirate whilst sneaking the Dark Brotherhood sees you. Roguelike 20:27, 2 April 2008 (GMT + 01)

Joining "hints" that aren't easy

In an effort to stop the Joining hints section from becoming a journal of every possible way of being observed by forces unknown, I have moved several comments from that section to here that unconfirmed or merely involve sneak attacks, so would not be helpful to a reader who is actually having trouble with this quest. --Actreal 06:08, 7 August 2006 (EDT)

  • Unconfirmed, but on one occasion in the second Arena match, Eye of Fear, the Khajiit demoralizing ability, was used on the opponent, and when the opponent was killed a message about having been observed by the Dark Brotherhood was received. It is confirmed that it can happen with the Eye of Fear in the arena, but it is unknown which match in particular or if the kill must be made while the spell is still active.
  • I got in by doing the anvil recomendation quest. it asks you to kill the mage who is freezing merchants. I got killed the first time around, so the second time, I shot her in the head before she even saw me. It made that quest done much easier and I got noticed by the brotherhood.
  • I Joined by doing a quest about regaining a wedding ring in Anvil. When I killed the girls in the small farmhouse according to the quest, and sleept in a bed, (loot the key to the cellar from the girls and sleep in the beds there), the Brotherhood will contact you. There is no chance of getting a bounty since you acctually were helping the town guards.
This particular event happened to me too. I think it occurs if you attack the leader of the gang (I forget her name now) immediately after her speech is finished. I assume there's a short gap between her finishing talking to you and becoming a hostile NPC.Chump 23:13, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
  • I recived the message when I killed Umbra with a Bow Sneak Attack without her noticing (I had never talked to her before nor let her see me)
  • At the end of the main quest, when you have to kill Cameron, if you hit him at any time before he attacks you, It gets noticed by the brotherhood.
  • I got noticed by killing Falcar during Ambush.


In some quests, the "Quick Walkthrough" includes the bonus (i.e. kill Baenlin, making it look like an accident), and in some, it doesn't (i.e. kill Faelian). I was about to fix these problems until I realized: Which way should it be? Personally, I think we should have the bonus, but that's just an idea. Verin Sedai 15:29, 11 November 2006 (EST)

dark brotherhood start killing each

ok all i did was steal from chests in the dark brotherhood living quarters, noone saw me so i wasn't kicked out. the next time i came back M'raaj-Dar started attacking Antoinetta Marie and i helped M'raaj-Dar cuz hes like the top merchant in the whole game, i got kicked when Marie died and then got back in by killing wrath of sithis. i thought it was just a glitch, but when i came back to sell more potions to M'raaj-Dar Teinaava started attacking Telaendril and killed her, cuz Teinaava is invincible. so i thought something was really wrong but what i saw when i got to the dark brotherhood main sanctuary was like the funniest thing ever. Ocheeva started attacking Gogron gro-Bolmog and killed him in 1 hit, dunno how but im sure it was 1 hit, but the killing of Gogron gro-Bolmog gave me daedric cuirass greaves gauntlet and boots so i no pity for him. then when i came back again Ocheeva was fully naked and Teinaava lost his hat and hood and was wearing a shirt. can some1 TELL ME WTF IS GOING ON??? [Unknown author and date]

Something similar happened to me. I just visited the Cheydinhal sanctuary for the first time. After my conversation with Ocheeva, I started back to find Vicente Valtieri. (By the way, what is an Italian doing in Tamriel?) My presence triggered a long conversation between Telaendril and Gogron gro-Bolmog about the latter's lack of interest in stealth, during which conversation Ocheeva went in to her quarters. At the end of the conversation, Ocheeva rushed out and attacked and killed Telaendril. No one else intervened. After loading a savegame, I was able to prevent Ocheeva's attack by interrupting the conversation between Telaendril and Gogron gro-Bolmog. They both were then able to go to their quarters unmolested.

I guess this is what happens when a bunch of assassins try to form a guild. I am afraid to leave my brethren now for fear that when I come back there will be bodies on the floor. TeeJay 23:00, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

I think I've found a possible cause, at least for Ocheeva attacking Telaendril. Ocheeva is set to eat in her chair in the main room of the Sanctuary, while Talaendril is set to eat in the Quarters. However, Ocheeva does not have any food in her inventory, and there are no items of food (that I can see in the CS) in the main room. Talaendril, however, is carrying 5 units of venison. So I think that what is happening is that the combination of Ocheeva's aggression and responsibility (both 30, IIRC) is causing her to attack Talaendril to get the venison.
The reason interrupting Talaendril when she is talking to Gogron is that (if I'm reading the CS correctly), the 'Eat' packages for all members of the Sanctuary are only triggered once that conversation has been completed - if you interrupt, it doesn't get completed. --Gaebrial 12:27, 4 July 2008 (EDT)


The rank is held by NPCs, so that's why it is on the site with a note. --Ratwar 19:21, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Shrouded Armor

Is there any way to obtain the Shrouded Armor without joining the Dark Brotherhood (or to enter the Sanctuary without being a member)? I'm on Xbox 360, and I'm a good guy (a good-aligned Assassin, actually - I eliminated Eugal Belette in his sleep, and then Lucien when he came to me)...and no, I don't have Xbox Live or know anyone with broadband (as I live in Saudi Arabia), so the Raiment of the Crimson Scar is a non-option for me. Kurai-sama 16:11, 23 February 2007 (GMT +3)

Go to J'ghasta's house and look in the locked barrel. You will find the black hand robe and hood which is better than the shrowded armor but has the same enchantments. (just greater values) This help? Pappasmurf 08:50, 23 February 2007 (EST)

That would be helpful, if I didn't already have three copies of the Black Hand Robe and Hood. ^_^ (The first set was found on Lucien, whom I killed as mentioned above). I just prefer the look of the Shrouded Armor (that, and the fact that it offers decent defense). Thanks anyways for the help, though! =) It's become an unofficial quest of mine, finding a way to obtain the Shrouded Armor on 360...difficult stuff, I must say. I'd like to note that Telaendril does NOT leave the sanctuary until you join the DB - tested over days of real time attempting to track her. Kurai-sama 21:24, 24 February 2007 (GMT +3)

Update: Bah, it appears that there is no way whatsoever to obtain the items without joining. On the bright side, I managed to get Xbox Live and my beautiful maxed-out Raiment of the Crimson Scar. Kurai-sama 9:24, 01 March 2007 (GMT +3)

Since you have XBox Live now, you might grab the Mehrune's Razor plug-in; that contains a set of Morag Tong armor, which at high levels is far better than the Shrouded armor. Also, it's individual pieces rather than an outfit.QuillanTalk 17:22, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Already done, but I still prefer my Damage Reflecting Raiment of the Crimson Scar. I'm glad I managed to get a hold of a broadband service here. o.O; Kurai-sama 12:13, 9 April 2007 (GMT +3)

  • Too bad you're not on a pc, I know that on the computer there's pretty much a cheat code for anything and everything. -Annacecilia 01:37, 14 February 2008 (EST)

I don't think so, since you killed Lucien Lachance. If I were you (and wanted to stay a "good guy") I would have joined, then killed an assassin for the clothes, thus getting kicked out. 19:41, 18 August 2008 (EDT)Cody M.

Unjoining via console?

Is it possible to add a mention on how to prevent Lucien from ever greeting you in the first place? It's rather frustrating having him pop up calling you a murderer when I damn well didn't kill a single named NPC or ever get the 'watched' message. — Unsigned comment by (talk)

I'm willing to bet that you did actually kill someone. It doesn't have to be a named NPC to count, you basically just have to kill someone who didn't attack you. For example, killing one of the nameless Imperial Legion soldiers accidentally during the Kvatch quests will count. In the midst of combat, it's pretty easy to overlook the watched message when it pops up on the screen. I've played the game with four different characters now, and I've only received Lucien's invitation after murdering someone (once after the Kvatch example I just mentioned). So basically, the best way to prevent Lucien from ever greeting you is to be very careful not to kill anyone. --Nephele 23:43, 4 March 2007 (EST)

Requests for this page.

I think a great thing to have somewhere is the stats for the henchmen that you can have follow you once you achieve listener, including info such as:

  • Are they leveled?
  • How long does it take for them to respawn?
  • What weapons do they have? (and at what level they have them if they are leveled?)
  • And any other info that there is as it relates to the Dark Brotherhood henchmen.

Just some ideas to make this page more informative. I would do these myself but I lack the CS to do so. :( --Pappasmurf 15:13, 2 March 2007 (EST)

And, about a year later, i will answer (though you've propably found it already): Dark Brotherhood Murderer.--LordDagon 13:14, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

Listener Reward

In the construction set, the only relevant script that I can find says that the weekly earnings once you become listener are always 200 gold. I can't see anything suggesting that the amount is leveled, as currently stated in Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood#Advantages. Since I haven't got that far in the DB quests, though, I can't check in game. Can anyone else confirm what the weekly reward is once you become listener? --Nephele 23:58, 5 March 2007 (EST)

I think it is 200, I don't remember getting anything else. -- 00:02, 6 March 2007 (EST)
Hmmm... I could have sworn I got 200 Initially and then started getting higher amounts as I leveled... I have been playing a Mage for a while now so I don't really remember. :( Sorry if it is wrong. Pappasmurf 15:56, 8 March 2007 (EST)
I'm going to change back to 200 then; if someone definitely notices that the amount changes, more research can be done at that point. --Nephele 02:47, 10 March 2007 (EST)
It was 250 the very first time and then only 200 every time after that.

Blackwood Ring of Silence

If you use this to kill people will you be able to get it back? Magu2k 17:09, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

What is that? Pappasmurf 17:02, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Kinda weird item can't find info on it, but when you are doing the fighter guild quest and you torture the Argonian before infiltrating Blackwood company. Just as he was killing himself I looted him and he had the ring, I saved and reloaded, and tried again, but it was not on him if I waited till he was slumped over and dead. I don't know if it's just rare, or appears so quickly and disappears that you don't usually see it. I also pick pocketed him before torturing and he didn't have it (although he has a gold pool before and after death so you can get gold from him twice)

Anyways, it's a ring that does like 150 fire damage to self. Magu2k 17:09, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

I don't recall for certain, but I think it has a weight. You can only plant objects on someone else if they are weightless, which is why the Mage's Hood is good for that. It's 0.0 weight.QuillanTalk 17:15, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
Info on it is at Oblivion:Blackwood Ring of Silence. The problem with using it as an assassination tool is that there's no way to add it a NPC's inventory. It's not zero-weight, so you can't reverse-pickpocket it. I'm not sure why you had trouble grabbing it from Ajum-Kajin once he was fully dead; I was able to get it from him after he was dead. The reason you couldn't find it in earlier saves is that it isn't added to Ajum's inventory until you start torturing him. But after that, there's no scripting that will make it disappear again. Other than the fact that its enchantment is deadly, it acts just like a normal ring. --Nephele 17:22, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Kicked Out...Or Am I?

After doing the first few DB quests (the next on my list is "No Rest for the Wicked"), I realized that my infamy was way too low so early in the game. My response was to do the first main quest, as well as a few Fighter's Guild Quests, and a good bit of the Arena. Now, when I try to enter the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary below the abandoned house in Cheydinhall, when I try to enter the door, it doesnt work. Help!?!?

Drain Health Weapon

In the tips section it is suggested that a weapon be enchanted with Drain Health for 100 pts. However, this doesn't seem to be an available power using either Soul Gems or Sigil Stones, so I was wondering where on earth is is supposed to come from? Unless there's a method of enchanting that has gone over my head until now, I'm rather stuck on this... — Unsigned comment by (talk)

As with any other time you use the Enchanting Altar, you need to be able to cast a Drain Health spell before you can create a weapon using that effect. So you need to purchase a drain health spell and have high enough Destruction skill to cast that spell. Then you can use a soul gem to create any weapon you want using drain health. --NepheleTalk 15:25, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Many thanks. I got it into my head that enchanting powers came from the Soul Gems themselves for some reason...

Members Section

According to their individual pages, Ungolim is the Listener, while Arquen, Banus Alor, Belisarius Arius, J'Ghasta, Alval Uvani, and Lucien Lachance are all Speakers; that's two too many. Which ones are correct? Also, Mathieu Bellamont is just listed as being "a member of the Black Hand", which means he's either a Listener, Speaker, or Silencer. Most of these have the Murderer icon in the Members section of the page, and ought to get updated appropriately. DisplacedAvenger 14:21, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

The information as originally posted was all taken directly from the construction set info on each of these NPCs, i.e. from their faction listings and the faction rank as provided there. Every person you list is either Dark Brotherhood with rank=0, or isn't even officially a member of the Dark Brotherhood faction. Lucien Lachance in particular is listed in the CS as rank 0 (murderer) not rank 6 (speaker)... and that's true of both versions of him. These ranks presumably only correspond to each NPC's rank at the start of the game. But scanning through the scripts the only NPC whose Dark Brotherhood rank appears to be changed is Arquen, who goes from 0 to 3 (assassin) to 6 (speaker) during the quest line.
I haven't actually played far enough through the Dark Brotherhood quests myself to know exactly what you get told during the game about each player's rank. But it's very possible that what gets stated in the storyline does not agree with the numbers in the construction set. It's obviously true with some of the members who aren't really even members of the Dark Brotherhood faction. I'm not really too sure what's the best thing to do in that situation. I think I'd prefer to have the tables (and the NPC summary boxes) provide the CS data; if there are discrepancies, then explain those in the text. It would require someone who has played through the full DB questline to sort all of that out, though. --NepheleTalk 15:52, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

It's true - many if not all of the marks in the Dead Drop quests are either Speakers or Silencers, and yet they are listed in the Construction Set as being rank 0 or whatnot. I, personally, believe that the rank displayed in-game would be more helpful and informative than the CS rank to list here, but that's just me. And, incidentally, sorry for reviving a dead topic. 00:38, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

If you take the time to read Mathieu Bellamont's diary, you will find that you were not only killing Speakers but also Silencers. I know that Ungolim was the Listener, Lucien was a Speaker, Mathieu was a Silencer and then became a Speaker later, Belisarius was a Speaker, Banus Alor was a Speaker, and I have on clue about Alval Uvani or J'Ghasta. Some of these people may have only become Speakers as a result of former Speakers being murdered, as was the case with Mathieu, as is implied from his diary. Also, I think it's safe to assume that near the end of the DB Quest Line, at Applewatch before you meet the Night Mother, that everyone in the room is a Speaker, including you. That equals out to five Speakers, one of which will soon become the Listener, leaving four. And if I'm wrong on any of that, or it doesn't make sense, feel free to correct me, as it has been a little while since I've done the Quest Line and I'm not always the most logical thinker ;). Darkle 00:56, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Near the end of the Dark Brotherhood quests, when you are in the farm where you are supposed to meat with Lucien, you find him dead, along with 4 other members of the Black Hand. Lucien was a Speaker, as he stated in-game. The four people in the farm do not state whether they are speakers or not, however, if you go by basic information about the Black Hand, and small information revealed in Mathieu's diary, you can assume that Arquen, Belisarius Arius, Banus Alor, and Lucien Lachance were all Speakers, and Ungolim was the Listener. That makes four speakers and one listener, the four fingers and thumb. As for Mathieu, he stated in his diary that he was made into a Silencer, but no further updates on his status was revealed. You are then put into the position of Speaker temporarily, and later Listener. In the diary, it is also said that the player is only killing Black Hand members (High Ranking members), but as to the actual rank of the people killed, no information is given. It is possible to assume that the people killed by the Dead Drops are simply Silencers, as the 8th Dead Drop states that one must kill Arquen, the first assumed Speaker. This would suggest that Mathieu was starting from the lower ranking Black Hand members before he continues up to the Speakers. It is a rather confusing subject though, I might be wrong in assuming that the four members mentioned above are Speakers, but then again I'm just going by assumptions from what I read in the game. Of course, my assumptions also leave a Speaker position unfilled when the player moves to Listener, but since new members are showing up at the Sanctuary, it can also be assumed that the position did end up being filled. But I still could be wrong. :D RaikuSonis 00:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

No that can't be right, because LaChance clearly states when he confronts you (after you kill UNgolim) "Halvestein, Aval Uvani etc. All of them Speakers and Silencers" and then says "Ungolim... the listener himself!" (Please correct me if I'm wrong). So the Black Hand is made up of the following people, followed by the proof I have of said positions: Ungolim: Listener ("Ungolim... The Listener himself", praying in front of the Night Mother every night etc). Lucien Lachance: Speaker (His position is mentioned multiple times in the story). J'Gasta: Speaker (He possesed Black Hand robes in his basement). Aval Uvani: Speaker (He hides Black Hand robes in his wall).

Then we must make a guess as to which member is the final Speaker, one of these people is NOT in the Black Hand though (The Player is one of the Silencers): Arquen: Possibly the Speaker due to her strong knowledge of the Night Mother ritual. Matthiu Bellamont: Probably a Silencer (His diary says he was promoted thus far). Banus Alor: No idea, Silencer?. Halvestein Hoar Bood: Silencer, to stupid to be a Speaker. Shaleez: My guess is that she was a Silencer (Too mad to be given real responsibility). Belasarius Arius: Possibly a Santuary Master (due to his "adminisatrative duties" that he says he had over recent times).

I'm guessing that Arquen is the last Speaker. - Chippie 03/04/08

Sleeping on Sacrificial Altar

I slept on a sacrificial altar in Pothole cavern (near the Inn of the III Omen) and Lucien Lachance came to me...

I didn't had to kill anyone =)

Apparently you killed someone, or else Lucien wouldn't have come for you. Or maybe yours is just a special case. Hmm...--Darth NANAME 23:17, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

DB People Living in the World

Aside from the group of people who live in the main sanctuary, can you actually run into any of the other DB people before, during or after the quests? Do they actually exist and live in houses, or do they just appear at the end? Bellamont, for example, apparently lives in Anvil, but I've never seen him there - though I've met his mother. Fafnir appears and vanishes in Skingrad, while the Bravil people also don't seem to exist. The only person I've seen on a more casual basis is Ungolim, who I've seeing talking to the Night Mother statue on occasion and seperate from the DB questline. Any thoughts/info? Thanks.

You'll also see Alval Uvani and Telaendril around and about but (as far as I can tell) the only other members that are present outside their associated quest are the sanctuary dwellers. --RpehTalk 08:11, 27 September 2007 (EDT)

Do DB Members Like Vampires

The common reaction to a vampire is for NPCs to be rude to them, and sometimes even attack them. It seems that just being a vampire causes disposition to plummet. However, I was wondering if this was the case with the DB people? It seems they like you more the higher your infamy is, but if anyone has had experience with having a vampire in the group, I'd be interested to hear. I'm making a vampire character, and I don't want everyone to hate me. — Unsigned comment by (talk)

If you are in a faction, (DB, Mages Guild, etc.) then the other people in that faction automatically like you more, usually. — Unsigned comment by Darkle (talkcontribs)
You can see the disposition modifiers for Dark Brotherhood members at Oblivion:Factions D#Dark Brotherhood. DB members do not have any liking for vampires. Vincente Valtieri is liked by the other sanctuary dwellers because of the +100 modifier between sanctuary dwellers. On the other hand, the +31 disposition boost towards other DB members is pretty significant. Especially as you rise in rank through the Dark Brotherhood: once you become listener, there will be a +248 disposition boost from all other members, which should pretty effectively cancel any negatives from vampirism. --NepheleTalk 03:02, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

That is terrific to know, thanks. When I complete the DB questline I repopulate the Sanctuary with the members I liked but had to kill earlier on. But there's no point in doing this if they are just going to hate me. I'll also make sure my Personality is nice and high. Thanks again.

  • Also good to note, being a vampire boosts the very stats you need as a member of the DB, and the longer you don't feed, the better. -Annacecilia 01:41, 14 February 2008 (EST)
  • If anyone cares, it's worth noting that none of the Dark Brotherhood members *have* any vampire reaction dialogue - they actually are unable to receive disposition losses or attack you. 00:39, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Drain Endurance

I think I read somewhere on this wiki that drain endurance doesn't have similar effects to NPC's then the player character i.e Doesn't damage thier health. If this is true should we delete this from the "overall killing hints".--Bambobo 13:09, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

I don't recall seeing that. Can you find the page? --RpehTCE 02:19, 14 October 2007 (EDT)
See for example Oblivion:Endurance#Notes or Oblivion:Health#Enemies. I've deleted the comment from the hints. --NepheleTalk 14:42, 14 October 2007 (EDT)

Missing Quest

After doing the quest "A knife in the Dark" but after talking to Ocheeva, you get a new quest. A Knife in the Dark will be completed, but you will gain "Welcome To the Family." Welcome to the Family has the descriptor: "I must now accept a contract from Vicente Valtiere." -- 17:12, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Nothing is missing. Check under Dark Brotherhood Quests and note that the introduction says "between each of the first ten actual quests there is a brief mini-quest that appears in your journal" and that then in the list of quests it states "Initiated by the Welcome to the Family mini-quest." Or you could check the list of all quests at 100% Completion where, again, this quest and all the other mini-quests are listed. --NepheleTalk 19:51, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Death dialogue?

Is it possible to have the dialogue on each of the Dark Brotherhood missions when you talk to your targets? --Merco 10:54, 5 November 2007 (EST)

It is not possible. --Mankar CamoranTCE 12:32, 5 November 2007 (EST)

I meant adding it to this wiki. --Merco 13:32, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Saving them?

I don't want to spoil anything so if you haven't finished all the quests in the DB, ignore this. Is it possible to kill the spy so that you don't have to kill everyone and murder the innocent people? Is there a mod anywhere?

Not likely, but you can respawn them with the console (if you're on the PC)--LordDagon 13:14, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

Nope, afraid not. As you'll find out, there isn't actually a traitor at all, but you still have to kill everyone. Personally, I just spawn 'em all back in with the console once I've completed the questline.

Umm, actually.. there is a traitor. Just no longer in the Cheydinhal Sanctuary.. You kinda kill him at the end of the questline.. Darkle 18:33, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

Glitch in abandoned House

I noticed that the icons for the members respective chests did not have a red steal icon so I stole items, then got kicked out for stealing. Did anyone else find this or can confirm? --Piercethetruth 22:22, 23 November 2007 (EST)

The same thing (lack of red icons) happened to me. In addition, the two chests that I investigated opened right up without the need for picking or a spell even though they were locked. When I took items from the first chest, the Khajit character nearby said it was no concern of his, and I was not expelled, but when I took items from the second chest, I finally was expelled. TeeJay 22:32, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

I am experiencing a quite weird bug in the abandoned house. I can't seem to able to open the door to the sanctuary. I haven't done the quest before so I don't know if there should be a dialogue before I enter or something(or an npc standing by the door) but the door simply won't interact. I used tcl to try and open it from inside but nothing different happened. I also deactivated all mods yet still, the door won't take me to the sanctuary.
Anyone have a clue? 09:42, 27 August 2008 (EDT)Mandalore313
ANSWER: Just click "activate" rapidly on the door and it will eventually ask the question. Jan 2010
The same thing (stealing) happened to me! And then Tieneeva (spelling?) kept attacking me and wrecked my game (no fast travel, talking to anyone because their weapons are drawn,waiting,sleeping).It's a Teddy Lich 10:06, 04 August 2009 (EST)
I just took every item from all the chests in the room after picking them with the skeleton key and I talked to all the members of the brotherhood and I haven't gotten exiled yet. Fromaginator 03:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The Infamy Route

I've noticed that in the discussion of the DB, people seem to be uncomfortable with murder... So, I have a suggestion: create a character that is designed for infamy. Make this the character that goes through the DB quests with gusto. That way, since this is designed to be a RP game, you can have a squeaky clean character and a nasty scumbag character. Make 'squeakers' do everything and anything that gives fame points, and make 'scumbagie' do all the fun things you couldn't do as 'squeakers'. Voila, your moral problem is solved, after all, it's all RP, isn't it?

Or, if you want to really mess with people's heads, first check out all the things you can do to gather infamy. Next, do all of those horrible infamy point gathering deeds. And finally, become a pilgrim and lo! Your sins are forgiven, you are freed from all of the infamy points you have gathered. -Annacecilia 01:58, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Scheduled For Execution in Bastion

Is it true you can run across one of the prison guards in the Bastion? I've never seen him myself. If yes, does he carry a key to get to Valen's cell? If yes, what hours is he in the bastion? --LordDagon 13:14, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

There's a Dungeon Key and the key to Valen's cell on a stool if you turn left when you come out of your old cell. The best part: they don't count as stolen. --Debatra 17:02, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Cleaning up the List

With regard to the cleanup tag, I think the following should come off the list. Please let me know what you think.

It's trickier to get the message here than to just complete the quest.
Faustina Cartia
Ditto. Usually, she attacks you and it doesn't count as murder.
I'm not sure this is true. Certainly when I've attacked Falcar in this way it hasn't counted as murder.
Odiil Brothers
Reduces your reward. Enough said.
There are only two advanced trainers in Athletics - do you really want to kill one off when there are easier targets?
The comment about the abandoned shack
This will get you kicked out of the Thieves Guild.
The comment about a small village
Far too unspecific and yet obvious.
The comment about random paths
The comment about some enemy NPCs
Unhelpful in the extreme.
The beggars
Can upset the Speechcraft quest as well as various Thieves Guild quests.
The comment about the console
Just shouldn't be on here - it's not a grame-breaking bug.

That's still going to leave a big ol' list. Anybody got any others they think should come off - or do people think some of this list should stay on? –RpehTCE 12:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Personally, I'd be in favour of even more extreme deletions. In my opinion, anyone who is needed for any quest or who provides a service should not be on the list. The targets should also be targets in guaranteed locations (e.g., Orc Adventurers with a 25% chance of appearing don't count). In my opinion, a recommended list should be limited to people who are easily available to anyone playing the game, no matter what stage of the game they are at. People who you could walk out of the sewers, immediately go find and kill if you wanted, without any future implications for any quests. Telling a player to complete half of the Fighters Guild quests or the entire Arena questline just to kill a target for the Dark Brotherhood is ridiculous; telling a player to reach level 15 before finding a target is pointless; telling a player that they should have done a quest his/her character completed months ago differently is even more unhelpful.
Instead, there could easily be a blanket statement at the beginning. For example, "Almost any named NPC could be killed if you chose. Several quests involve killing NPCs, any of whom could be used as a target to gain entrance to the Dark Brotherhood. Also, after most quests are completed, people involved in the quest could become valid targets with no subsequent consequences."
By those criteria, the current list becomes very short:
  • The Mythic Dawn sleeper agents
  • The Skooma Den inhabitants
  • Wilhelm the Worm
  • Alval Uvani
  • Dorian
Although that list is short, it is also more than adequate. It includes people in a range of different cities across Cyrodiil. Most of them can be found in non-public locations (for example, their houses) where they can murdered without a bounty. Many are low-level; others are leveled. So even level one characters could find a low-health target in this list. In other words, if someone is really having a hard time finding a possible target, this list will give them some solid, guaranteed choices. It won't cover everyone's personal favorite targets, but the purpose of the wiki is not to list personal favorites. --NepheleTalk 13:12, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
I completely agree, although I'd keep The Gray Prince on the list since he's somebody most players will kill anyway. I'd left the list long before as I imagined a big discussion about it. In the absence of any opinions to the contrary, I'll make the change later today. –RpehTCE 02:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
I personally like killing the Orc Adventurer Captain after his adventurers are killed, since he can be murdered mostly with a single spell/arrow and flees through the Fringe's no man's land where nobody can see you, before vanishing from the game. Can he be added?
Can I ask, why aren't various daedra worshipers on the list? Only one of any of them around a particular shrine is essential, and the others are completely pointless. I don't know if this applies to all of them, but the orcs of Malacath's shrine didn't turn hostile after I killed one of them. They aren't easy to kill, and do give a bounty, but, other than that, provide perfect targets for senseless murder. 06:04, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

H. P. Lovecraft easter egg?

"The faction gets its name from a short story entitled "The Dark Brotherhood," which was a collaboration between H. P. Lovecraft and August Derleth. In fact, the entire game of Oblivion features references to Lovecraft's fiction peppered throughout."

I move this from the main article, because 1) Can this be proven? and 2) Does it really belong on this page anyways? It seems more like somehitng that would be put on the Easter Eggs page.. Darkle 18:59, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Lovecraft did write something called "The Dark Brotherhood", and Oblivion does have a few other Lovecraft references(A Shadow over Hackdirt/Innsmouth, etc). Definatley an egg. --Debatra 20:44, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
Alright, thanks. I was mostly just wondering if it was in the right place. Should this be mentioned on the Easter Eggs page then as well? Darkle 20:50, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
I've added it to both pages. Hard to believe that after all this time, people are still finding out new things like this, eh? --Debatra 20:51, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
Yeah I noticed you did right after I asked.. and I'm sure there's still plenty more to find out there too, even after the 2 years it's been out for. Darkle 20:56, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
I'm a little dubious over the veracity of such a claim, mainly because the name is a simple sentence consisting of 2 words; it could merely be coincidence. However, I've encountered difficulty challenging such a claim, generally because I can't find a synopsis of the Lovecraft story anywhere, nor a copy at any of the nearby libraries. If anyone has any further connections between the Lovecraft story and the Dark Brotherhood, then by all means, it's a valid easter egg. Until then I maintain that it's pure coincidence and move for the respective note to be removed from the article. --Saruuk 22:08, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
"The Dark Brotherhood" was also the name given to the cabal of villains in Mark Frost's The List of Seven. You have to admit: it's not a particularly imaginative title for an evil organization. —Dark Spark 01:41, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

After this was added to the page, I thought it probably would've been a good idea to look up Lovecraft's book.. But I ran into the same problem as you, Saruuk. There seems to be no summary of it anywhere. If anyone could provide information as to what it's about, that'd be great. Until then, should we take it back off the page? We'd need to move it off the Easter Egg page too, if we do. Darkle 23:37, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I've taken the note off. Can we confine this kind of speculation to the talk pages or the Easter Egg page, please? –RpehTCE 00:50, 9 July 2008 (EDT)


Shouldn't there be an Advancement section like the other guild page have? I don't know which quests you gain ranks on, so if someone who knows could help out, we could put an advancement table on this page. DaedryonTCE 05:08, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Ideally, yes. But there are a few problems with the DB, namely that promotions can happen at different places depending on the results of quests. For information on which quests lead to promotions, look at the Reward param of each quest; they should be listed there. –RpehTCE 05:53, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Mages Hoods are NOT weightless

they're not! D: is there any hood that IS weightless? or headgear? i ask because if there is, that section needs to be fixed, otherwise removed. 23:40, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

Mages' Hoods seem to be weightless. Are you sure you have a Mage's Hood? I think there are other hoods that aren't zero-weight. —SolarEquinox 00:13, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
They are indeed weightless. A full list of zero-weight items can be found here. –RpehTCE 00:42, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Free Houses

(moved from the article)
  • A few of your target's houses become available to you after the targets are dead. Entering the houses is usually not considered trespassing, and taking any items inside usually isn't considered stealing. This makes them great for extra storage, and they are free. Also, some of the houses are next door to the houses for sale (e.g. Summitmist Manor is across the street from Rosethorn Hall), so they aren't hard to find.

I've moved this because it's really not helpful as it stands. For a start, which houses? Then what does "usually" mean? Lastly, is there any house that's genuinely hard to find? As it stands this comment simply isn't helpful enough to warrant inclusion. –RpehTCE 11:36, 16 November 2008 (EST)

**Possible spoilers alert!**
- First quest - A Watery Grave. You have to kill the captain of the Marie Elena pirate ship. The ship is docked in the Waterfront, fairly close to the Waterfront shack, the House for Sale in the Imperial City.
- Second quest - Accidents Happen. Baenlin's house is right next to the Bruma House for Sale.
- Third quest - Scheduled for Execution. Valen Dreth has no house, so this one probably doesn't count.
- Fourth quest - The Assassinated Man. Francois Motierre's house is next door to Arborwatch, the Chorrol House for Sale.
- Fifth quest - The Lonely Wanderer. Faelian lives at the Tiber Septim hotel in the Talos Plaza district of the Imperial City, too far away from the Waterfront shack, so this is another exception.
- Sixth quest - Bad Medicine. It could be argued that Roderick's 'home' is Fort Sutch, so this is another example of a 'house' that isn't close to a house for sale.
- Seventh quest - Whodunit?. Summitmist Manor is almost directly across the road from Rosethorn Hall, the House for Sale in Skingrad.
- Eighth quest - Permanent Retirement. As far as I know, Adamus Phillida has no house either.
- Ninth quest - The Purification. The Cheydinhal Sanctuary is the home of the Dark Brotherhood members, and it's isn't really that close to the Cheydinhal House for Sale.
- Tenth quest - Affairs of a Wizard. Leafrot Cave, the location of the quest, is where Celedaen resides, far from any civilization.
- Eleventh quest - Next of Kin. Applewatch isn't near any House for Sale, being a farm. Matthias Draconis lives in the Talos Plaza district of the Imperial City, not particularly near the Waterfront shack. Caelia Draconis, as far as I am aware, lives at the Three Sisters Inn in Leyawiin, which is next to the Leyawiin House for Sale, but is not lootable since it is an inn, and not Caelia's personal house. Andreas Draconis lives at the Drunken Dragon Inn, which isn't near any House for Sale. Sibylla Draconis lives in Muck Valley Cavern, which is also too far from any House for Sale.
- Twelfth quest - Broken Vows. J'Ghasta's house is fairly close to the Bruma House for Sale, being just down the road.
- Thirteenth quest - Final Justice. Shaleez appears to have no home other than the Flooded Mine, which isn't particularly near any settlements.
- Fourteenth quest - A Matter of Honor. Alval Uvani's rented property in Leyawiin is a short walk away from the House for Sale in Leyawiin.
- Fifteenth quest - The Coldest Sleep. Havilstein Hoar-Blood lives at Gnoll Mountain in the Jerall Mountains, far from any settlement.
- Sixteenth quest - A Kiss Before Dying. Ungolim's house is on one side of Bravil, and the House for Sale is on the other side, across the river.
- Optional quest - Th Renegade Shadowscale. Scar-Tail's camp is not near any settlements with a House for Sale.
Any quests after this do not target NPCs with houses, as far as I am aware. Hopefully this clears things up a little! --Lady Azura 19:27, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Some kind of audio glitch

I overheard Vicente and Gogron having two conversations, the first about Vicente killing of the target and six legion members. The second however was about gogron killing off 'non-essentials', nothing specific in the audio, but the subtitles spoke of an orphanage in whicg gogron killing off all the children, because they defended themselves. Can someone check the CS, abnd will this be an audio glitch, or a bug? I don't know, so I just went here to notify you. - Korunox

What's supposed to be a glitch? It's just one of many conversations that NPCs can have when talking to each other. --NepheleTalk 12:15, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

The NPC's are talking, yet the subtitles come up with something completely different? Same happened here, when I was talking to someone in the Imperial Waterfront. I asked for rumors, to which they replied:

"We're all down, here in the waterfront. We can't do that dungeon stuff like you adventurers. We got no money, no skill. Nobody wants us."

Yet, the subtitles said:

"Blessings of Arkay upon ye."

Or something. Has this happened to anyone? - Deadly920

Verification on the 'people fighting' bit

A recently-added note says "When entering the sanctuary, one can find 2 or 3 members of the Dark Brotherhood fighting each other for no apparent reason.". This was queried. I can confirm that it does happen, and has been reported several times previously. See here, or here, or here.

On the point about the well key not allowing you to use the well to enter or exit the sanctuary, one possibility is that the key you can find on other members' corpses is a different key to the one you receive. Alternatively, there could be a script on the well that prevents you using it unless you are of the required rank, but that seems unlikely. --Gaebrial 05:57, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Well there is a script on the key, but it doesn't do anything with the player's DB Rank. The reason the keys found on the NPCs don't work is that none of them carry the Sanctuary Well Key - they carry the Abandoned House Key, which doesn't do anything (unless the UOP is installed). I've deleted that part of the note entirely. –RpehTCE 12:42, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Joining Without Sleeping

I had read elsewhere that it there was at least one place where it was possible to join without sleeping (or, rather, without triggering the level-up dialogue) including doing the quest with Henantier. Unfortunately that specific example doesn't seem to work. Is there any way to join without sleeping? Can I just add the Knife In The Dark quest with the console to get things rolling? 16:46, 23 June 2009 (EDT)


How do you use the well?— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 04:07 on 2 August 2009 (UTC)

You get a key later in the questline. –Elliot talk 04:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
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